Lunar: from the best games ever to the most common, mediocre

[revstate]

I do not normally go on forums or post reviews, but to me this was an outrage and I needed to speak.

I have purchased and played every lunar since the Sega cd, the week they came out.

In fact, I have played the first 2 a ridiculously large amount of times. Lunar 1 and 2 are without a shadow of doubt, my favorite video games of all time. I also play almost every console RPG that has come out since the NES.

That being stated, not for bragging just reference, here is my point.

It seems that Lunar: Dragon Song is a Lunar game in name, and some common ideas.

The plot, story and character development are about 1/1000000 of the originals.

The so called plot is rehashed from the original in a piss poor fashion. I did not feel for a single character, event or storyline. It was almost more boring of a plot than the first Dragon Quest game. Quark should be alive and kicking in this time period, Vain should at least be being built, and where the f**k is my dragon armor? Not to mention if in a thousand years, how did the worlds continents change so drastically.

So, in essence, in my opinion (of a VERY big Lunar fan), Game Arts ruined the name Lunar.

I could care less about the rest of the game’s dynamics. Sure I don’t like the battle system, or the breaking of equipment, or the money vs. experience system. But I could get past that very quickly if I loved the plot and characters and if it had some linearity with the rest of the series.

So Game Arts, great job with the graphics, the sounds and ruining the story in every way I could ever think of.

Its as bad as Grandia Extreme is to the rest of the Grandia series.

Thanks,

bp

[Roas Atrades]

Well that was said with a lot of venom

Your points and feelings are all valid. You, as a long time fan, feel like you have been jipped and sucker punched, and you should probably rightfully feels so.

However, I don't think so much acid should be tossed on GA. Hey, every company makes a clunker in a particular series every now and then. Unfortunately, Lunar had been on a ten plus year streak of not sucking.

While GA should hold most of the blame, I think one needs to disect how exactly to blame them. Personally, I feel most of the blame begins in their choice to do it handheld with a low bugit and heavy time constraints. Combine that, and this is what we've ended up with.

I'm sure on a proper console, with time, money, and thought the game may have come out to what many people wanted.

Who knows. As many have suggested, it may join the ranks of remakes and reappear in a reincarnated version on a future console and be redeemed.

[Werefrog]

I really hate to admit this, but I'm selling my copy of DS Friday for Phoenix Wright. I enjoyed the game (most of the time), but it's just not something I picture myself playing again (possibly a New Game+ mode would change my mind).

[revstate]

Well that was said with a lot of venom

Your points and feelings are all valid. You, as a long time fan, feel like you have been jipped and sucker punched, and you should probably rightfully feels so.

However, I don't think so much acid should be tossed on GA. Hey, every company makes a clunker in a particular series every now and then. Unfortunately, Lunar had been on a ten plus year streak of not sucking.

While GA should hold most of the blame, I think one needs to disect how exactly to blame them. Personally, I feel most of the blame begins in their choice to do it handheld with a low bugit and heavy time constraints. Combine that, and this is what we've ended up with.

I'm sure on a proper console, with time, money, and thought the game may have come out to what many people wanted.

Who knows. As many have suggested, it may join the ranks of remakes and reappear in a reincarnated version on a future console and be redeemed.

i hope that this does not ruin the lunar franchise for ever
but my question is, did the original writer/s write this story?
if so, the blame lies in their hands
if not, they need to fire the new writer/s

but the hand held thing...
i liked even the lunar one port to gba (not as much as the originals)
its story and personality that i love about these games and even the ok gba port kept most of that

oh well, maybe grandia 3 and xenosaga 3 will make me happy

games and music as late seem to be dissapointing me

maybe i am getting old

[GhaleonOne]

Honestly, noone really knows if the original head scenario designer did the story this time around. I'm beginning to lean towards a partially. I kinda think the basic story was done by Shigema (the original main scenario/story guy) and then he took on Grandia III, and JAM was left to develop Lunar DS. In fact, with Iwadare not on the project, it makes quite a bit of sense that Iwadare and Shigema were both doing Grandia III and left Lunar DS to JAM's in-house folks. However, the fact remains that neither the import (according to Kizyr) nor the US version lists a scenario designer.

Also, I think JAM deserves just as much mud-slinging as GameArts does for this one. If they were gauging interest in the series, this wasn't the way to go about it.

[Roas Atrades]

then he took on Grandia III, and JAM was left to develop Lunar DS. In fact, with Iwadare not on the project, it makes quite a bit of sense that Iwadare and Shigema were both doing Grandia III and left Lunar DS to JAM's in-house folks.

That kinda makes my point about system importance with developing a game. Grandia III, which I assume many of us are looking forward to, is a major console game, so it gets full attention both creative and money wise.

DS was for the, well, DS, and it ended up getting the back end of the broom. With the good people working on a bigger game, it was basically left to people who probably have the sense of first year interns to make a finished product.

[Bravo 29]

The so called plot is rehashed from the original in a piss poor fashion. I did not feel for a single character, event or storyline. It was almost more boring of a plot than the first Dragon Quest game. Quark should be alive and kicking in this time period, Vain should at least be being built, and where the f**k is my dragon armor? Not to mention if in a thousand years, how did the worlds continents change so drastically.

I agree with you about the exclusion of Vane. That itself was inexcusable.

In a couple of the LUNAR games, they state that the Dragons are eternal, so they can never truly die. They are reborn in different forms. However, if that's the case, why produce heirs like Nall and Ruby? It's a sizeable discrepancy as it is.

As for the Dragon Armor, could you truly envision Jian in it? He's an acrobatic fighter, so mobility is a major issue for him. The armor would've weighed him down. And he's no swordsman, so that would've been wasted on him as well. On top of that, Ignatius also posessed none of the Dragon armaments, and he was also a legitimate Dragonmaster. It appears theyr'e only for people like Dyne and Alex, who can equip and utilize them properly.

I could care less about the rest of the game’s dynamics. Sure I don’t like the battle system, or the breaking of equipment, or the money vs. experience system. But I could get past that very quickly if I loved the plot and characters and if it had some linearity with the rest of the series.

Same here, man. I feel your pain. A good story keeps me going as well. A bad one discourages me from continuing an otherwise decent game.

[Angelalex242]

It's also inconsistant with Lucia (EBC Lucia)'s fortress.

Ya notice how there's a whole couple rows of statues of Dragonmasters up and down that hall leading up to her crystal?

I remember theorizing that each one took on the face of one of the Dragonmasters on Lunar.

Thus, the last face was Alex's, the first face was Louie's, and people from Lunar DS are nowhere to be seen.

[spoiler]Oh well. Maybe in the remake, we'll see SOMEBODY in the traditional Dragonmaster Gear. Though my bet would be on Ignatius wearing it, not Jian.

I think Ignatius would've been...more impressive, were he in the exact same Armor Dyne and Alex wore. It...more effectively drives the point of his profession home. None of these stupid 1000 damage fireballs in the remake...he'll hack Gabi and Jian down with Althena's Sword. Now that would be scary. It'd also be nice if the battle could somehow be arranged to have Ignatius use Red Dragon Anger to zap you, used White Dragon protect to Guard himself, Black Dragon Grief to teleport you to the Cathedral of Althena, then Blue Dragon Healing to heal what wounds he did suffer. In that order, of course, since that's the order of the Dragons in DS.[/spoiler]

[Kizyr]

It's also inconsistant with Lucia (EBC Lucia)'s fortress.

Ya notice how there's a whole couple rows of statues of Dragonmasters up and down that hall leading up to her crystal?

I remember theorizing that each one took on the face of one of the Dragonmasters on Lunar.

Thus, the last face was Alex's, the first face was Louie's, and people from Lunar DS are nowhere to be seen.

Fine theory, but it still makes no bloody sense. The fortress was there for ages, and Lucia had been asleep since the Blue Star went under (anywhere between 8000-10000 years before TSS). Only way that'd be the case is if people regularly journeyed back to the Blue Star just to carve another huge statue of the latest Dragonmaster for that span of time. KF

[Roas Atrades]

As for the Dragon Armor, could you truly envision Jian in it? He's an acrobatic fighter, so mobility is a major issue for him. The armor would've weighed him down. And he's no swordsman, so that would've been wasted on him as well. On top of that, Ignatius also posessed none of the Dragon armaments, and he was also a legitimate Dragonmaster. It appears theyr'e only for people like Dyne and Alex, who can equip and utilize them properly.

I must disagree. Look at every picture (original version and remake) the Dragon Equipment is anything but cumbersome. It's all pretty form fitting and light, which it can afford to be since it is magically enchanted to take a beating.

So, an acrobatic Dragonmaster would not really be all that encumbered by it.

[revstate]

As for the Dragon Armor, could you truly envision Jian in it? He's an acrobatic fighter, so mobility is a major issue for him. The armor would've weighed him down. And he's no swordsman, so that would've been wasted on him as well. On top of that, Ignatius also posessed none of the Dragon armaments, and he was also a legitimate Dragonmaster. It appears theyr'e only for people like Dyne and Alex, who can equip and utilize them properly.

I must disagree. Look at every picture (original version and remake) the Dragon Equipment is anything but cumbersome. It's all pretty form fitting and light, which it can afford to be since it is magically enchanted to take a beating.

So, an acrobatic Dragonmaster would not really be all that encumbered by it.

i totally agree !

in fact, i do not remember alex being a master swordsman when he took on the dragonmaster quest

[DaWrestla]

in fact, i do not remember alex being a master swordsman when he took on the dragonmaster quest

No, but he had been training before the game even started

[Angelalex242]

Magic. Self Creating Statues. It doesn't have to make sense...just to make sense within the limits of magic on that world.

If the Blue Spire can get magic to the Blue Star in the first place, it could conceivably get energy signatures from each Dragonmaster that goes by.

[Roas Atrades]

If the Blue Spire can get magic to the Blue Star in the first place, it could conceivably get energy signatures from each Dragonmaster that goes by.

Conceivable, but Alex never went by it in either incarnation of the game.

[MiaOne]

Maybe the statues are in fact warriors of the past from the Blue Star and the Dragonmaster and his armor, etc was modeled after them?

Seems possible.

[Alunissage]

Where, exactly, is it indicated that the statues are of Dragonmasters? Because this sounds like another thing that exists only in Angelalex's Luciaverse, and unless it's clear that that's what they are they shouldn't be called that.

[Angelalex242]

I have nothing to go on but graphics. And they certainly LOOK like they're wearing the distinctive Alex/Dyne Blue Dragon Helmet. And really, what else would they be statues of with that sort of helmet?

[Shiva Indis]

I've wondered if those statues weren't a relic of early development phases - like Kubooka's talk of great numbers of people that share Lucia's role, waiting for centuries until the time come to go forth and fulfill their missions. Or Hasukawa's mention of two sleeping crystals in the tower on the Blue Star, one Lucia's and one Althena's. It seems that the Blue Star was a place of greater activity in the early stages, where transcendental beings could've been attended by many powerful warriors.

In the end I agree with Alunissage though. The statues resemble Dragonmasters in armor, and that's all the more we can be sure of.

[Alunissage]

I don't even see that much of a resemblance. They look more like the figures on the friezes in the opening:

http://www.lunar-net.com/ebc/screens/1/ ... D3D029.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/ebc/screens/1/ ... D3D030.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/ebc/screens/1/ ... D3D041.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/ebc/screens/1/ ... D3D042.jpg

http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_046.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_047.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_061.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_062.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_063.jpg

The helmet is obviously based on something, but that something doesn't have to be the Blue Dragon Helmet. Those statues always looked Assyrian to me (my sample pic from the British Museum had an url too long to work) and I'd consider the statues being based on the same source as the reliefs far more likely than on the Dragonmaster...the point of the reliefs and statues is to convey age, ancient history predating Lunar's colonization. Since the first Dragonmaster helped terraform Lunar, if anything the connection would be in the other direction, that the helmet was based on those antique styles present at the time of the Blue Star's destruction. (This sort of thing is another reason why the pseudo-scifi vibe of some parts of the remakes doesn't fit too well with other things; the reliefs in EB are clearly showing less technology.)

[Roas Atrades]

I don't even see that much of a resemblance. They look more like the figures on the friezes in the opening:

http://www.lunar-net.com/ebc/screens/1/ ... D3D029.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/ebc/screens/1/ ... D3D030.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/ebc/screens/1/ ... D3D041.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/ebc/screens/1/ ... D3D042.jpg

http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_046.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_047.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_061.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_062.jpg
http://www.lunar-net.com/eb/screens/1/i ... UE_063.jpg

Now that is what I call bringing meat to debate

Upon seeing hard evidence, those look nothing like possible dragonmasters of old. These seem to be your simple guardian statues.

So, I say nay.