Question about Althena/Lucia

[Adol]

Warning, my question has spoilers and will result in spoiler answers.

Alright, so I haven't played DS, mainly because of the horrible reviews, but I imagine I will get it eventually, I'm too big of a Lunar fan not to...

My question is in regards to some of the posts I'm reading in this forum about the relationship between Lucia and Althena. I don't have any specific quotes to draw from and I'm too lazy to go back and look, but from what I've been reading it sounds like, in DS, that Lucia and Althena are the same person? This seems contradictory to everything I've come to understand. I mean, although not a lot is explained about Lucia and her origins I'm pretty sure her and Althena are two different people.

Now that I'm on this topic I might as well ask another question. I understand Althena is a Goddess, and she is reborn every so often, and Luna is her last incarnation, but what exactly is Lucia? I feel like her entire history and what she is exactly is never addressed, or at least not to my liking. All I really know is she's the guardian of the Blue Star. Did Althena put her there? If Lucia another Goddess? I feel like this unanswered questions could raise even more questions.

Thanks in advance.

[DevNall]

The Lucia in "Dragon Song" is not the Lucia in "Eternal Blue."

[phyco126]

Lucia in Lunar: Dragon song and the Lucia from EB/C are too different and seperate people who happen to have the same name. Hopefully that'll help clearify it for you.

[Adol]

Of all the names they could go with they chose Lucia? That seems silly...

Regardless the second part of my question still stands, in regards to Lucia from EB, her history, what she is, etc...

[DevNall]

Actually, it's never really been clear, and the question has been asked before. Here's a quote from an artbook(?) interview with Kei Shigema.

Q. What's the connection between Althena and Lucia? When Althena was on the Blue Star, where was Lucia?
A. Althena, Lucia, and Zophar are all probably the same type of entity. They are said to be gods, and while that's possible, the truth is probably a little different. So, then, what are they? Well...we really don't know. C'mon, this isn't sci-fi; gimme a break if I can't be clear on everything.

This topic has come up before here, and while I'm not sure what I think myself, a lot of people do seem to believe she's some sort of goddess (in the same way as Althena is), but perhaps not on the same level -- maybe akin to a lower god. Lucia seemed subservient to Althena, yet demonstrated the ability to use powers not available to humans and even claim Althena's power when necessary. Supposedly, early designs for Lunar 2 had two crystals in the beginning, one for Althena.

(Actually, given Mel's remark and what appears to be very advanced technology in the Goddess Tower in the remake, I personally wouldn't be surprised if it was more along the lines of Clarke's Third Law.)

Of all the names they could go with they chose Lucia? That seems silly...

EDIT: I agree, although it's not really all that unusual here. Haven't you ever met a Spanish guy named Jesus?

[GhaleonOne]

Of all the names they could go with they chose Lucia? That seems silly...

Actually, they are different names, but they just don't carry over to different spellings in English. My understanding (and Kiz can correct me if I'm wrong) is that EB Lucia is pronounced "Loo-She-Uh" and DS Lucia is pronounced "Loo-See-Uh".

[Alunissage]

No -- there isn't a sound "see" in Japanese. It's that the first syllable length is different.

EB Lucia: ルーシア [ruushia]
DS Lucia: ルシア [rushia]

An interview with one of DS/Genesis's creators said he didn't notice the similarity until it was pointed out by the interviewer. I dunno, maybe it'd be like, oh, Mick / Mike for us.

[Kizyr]

My question is in regards to some of the posts I'm reading in this forum about the relationship between Lucia and Althena. I don't have any specific quotes to draw from and I'm too lazy to go back and look, but from what I've been reading it sounds like, in DS, that Lucia and Althena are the same person?

Most of that has already been answered. Lucia from DS is one person, who's one of the human rebirths of Althena. Lucia from EB is another completely different person.

Now that I'm on this topic I might as well ask another question. I understand Althena is a Goddess, and she is reborn every so often, and Luna is her last incarnation, but what exactly is Lucia? I feel like her entire history and what she is exactly is never addressed, or at least not to my liking. All I really know is she's the guardian of the Blue Star. Did Althena put her there? If Lucia another Goddess? I feel like this unanswered questions could raise even more questions.

I'm still working on summaries of the other two novels, but the first Eternal Blue novel (http://www.lunar-net.com/novels/eb1.php) and the translated prologue (http://www.lunar-net.com/novels/eb1-prologue.php) say very precisely that Lucia is a goddess. More specifically, she's the goddess who watches over the Blue Star, waiting for its resurrection.

Part in the second novel hints at the relationship between Lucia and Althena. Lucia has a little internal monologue saying that she and Althena aren't really friends, sisters, mother-and-daughter, or anything like that--in fact, they've never met one another.

Now, squaring that with what's said in the EB game itself, we know that Althena/Luna was aware of Lucia on the Blue Star. Althena is also the one who originally sealed Zophar, and she's the one who carried the surviving humans to Lunar (corroborated in SSS, EB, and EB novels). So, the most likely situation is that when Althena populated Lunar with the survivors from the Blue Star, she set up Lucia as the goddess who would watch over the Blue Star and await its resurrection.

However, she wasn't supposed to wake up originally until the Blue Star was revived--hence why she's confused when she first wakes up and the Blue Star is still desolate ("This is not the time for my reawakening... Something's gone terribly wrong!"). In fact (by the novel's clarification), she just has foreknowledge of many things, such as Althena, but doesn't know any specifics about how humans are living, the history of the previous several thousand years, or any of that.

What does all this mean as far as who Lucia is? Well, she's a goddess, we know that much, and her purpose is to watch over the Blue Star until it's revived. She's not directly related to Althena, but was most probably established there on the Blue Star by her. She's much weaker than Althena it would seem, and doesn't deal with human rebirths or anything of that nature.

Does that suffice to answer your question? KF

[ilovemyguitar]

I've always thought that further explanation of EB Lucia as a character would be an excellent subject for Lunar 3. I remember reading someone's theory on here (or maybe it was on GameFAQs) that a new religion based on Lucia's actions while she was on Lunar could easily come about, and I've always found that would be a particularly interesting idea.

A slightly off-topic question here. Is there anything in the novels or manga that specifically says that Lucia no longer has Althena's power at the end of Lunar 2? One could gather that she loses it permanently when Zophar steals it from her, but it's never actually stated whether that power dies with Zophar, it returns to Lucia, or it goes back to wherever it was before Lucia took it for herself.

And for that matter, what happens to Zophar's own power? If Althena's power could survive after her own death, could Zophar's as well?

[DevNall]

but it's never actually stated whether that power dies with Zophar, it returns to Lucia, or it goes back to wherever it was before Lucia took it for herself.

Ambiguity gives more room in which to write a sequel

[Adol]

My question is in regards to some of the posts I'm reading in this forum about the relationship between Lucia and Althena. I don't have any specific quotes to draw from and I'm too lazy to go back and look, but from what I've been reading it sounds like, in DS, that Lucia and Althena are the same person?

Most of that has already been answered. Lucia from DS is one person, who's one of the human rebirths of Althena. Lucia from EB is another completely different person.

Now that I'm on this topic I might as well ask another question. I understand Althena is a Goddess, and she is reborn every so often, and Luna is her last incarnation, but what exactly is Lucia? I feel like her entire history and what she is exactly is never addressed, or at least not to my liking. All I really know is she's the guardian of the Blue Star. Did Althena put her there? If Lucia another Goddess? I feel like this unanswered questions could raise even more questions.

I'm still working on summaries of the other two novels, but the first Eternal Blue novel (http://www.lunar-net.com/novels/eb1.php) and the translated prologue (http://www.lunar-net.com/novels/eb1-prologue.php) say very precisely that Lucia is a goddess. More specifically, she's the goddess who watches over the Blue Star, waiting for its resurrection.

Part in the second novel hints at the relationship between Lucia and Althena. Lucia has a little internal monologue saying that she and Althena aren't really friends, sisters, mother-and-daughter, or anything like that--in fact, they've never met one another.

Now, squaring that with what's said in the EB game itself, we know that Althena/Luna was aware of Lucia on the Blue Star. Althena is also the one who originally sealed Zophar, and she's the one who carried the surviving humans to Lunar (corroborated in SSS, EB, and EB novels). So, the most likely situation is that when Althena populated Lunar with the survivors from the Blue Star, she set up Lucia as the goddess who would watch over the Blue Star and await its resurrection.

However, she wasn't supposed to wake up originally until the Blue Star was revived--hence why she's confused when she first wakes up and the Blue Star is still desolate ("This is not the time for my reawakening... Something's gone terribly wrong!"). In fact (by the novel's clarification), she just has foreknowledge of many things, such as Althena, but doesn't know any specifics about how humans are living, the history of the previous several thousand years, or any of that.

What does all this mean as far as who Lucia is? Well, she's a goddess, we know that much, and her purpose is to watch over the Blue Star until it's revived. She's not directly related to Althena, but was most probably established there on the Blue Star by her. She's much weaker than Althena it would seem, and doesn't deal with human rebirths or anything of that nature.

Does that suffice to answer your question? KF

No, not really LOL but I appreciate the effort. But at least I know I'm not alone now in my confusion over Lucia. I guess it adds to the mystery, but I would like it resolved. It seems to be the general concensus though that she is weaker than Althena.

Personally I think it would be cool to see a game where it focused on the original battle between Zophar and Althena. On the topic of Zophar I pretty much have all the same questions about him as I do Lucia.

[Kizyr]

A slightly off-topic question here. Is there anything in the novels or manga that specifically says that Lucia no longer has Althena's power at the end of Lunar 2? One could gather that she loses it permanently when Zophar steals it from her, but it's never actually stated whether that power dies with Zophar, it returns to Lucia, or it goes back to wherever it was before Lucia took it for herself.

I'm not up to that point yet (I still have about 60 pages to go in the last EB novel). She probably lost hold of it somewhat when Hiro and the others regained their magic, and when she finally believed in the power of humanity, that would be when she gave up control of it--then it was a matter of defeating Zophar to make sure it was re-dispersed among humans where it should've been. After all, had Althena's power remained with someone other than humanity, the world would've looked a lot different considering Althena herself was no longer in control.

And for that matter, what happens to Zophar's own power? If Althena's power could survive after her own death, could Zophar's as well?

Well, it was humanity's darkness that brought back Zophar both the first time (on the Blue Star) and this time on Lunar. The first time, Zophar was sealed; this time he was defeated--but that could mean that he was just re-sealed, or permanently destroyed (that's the part where it's non-specific).

Zophar himself says several times that humanity's dark side is what revived him, so as long as there's darkness in humanity, it's conceivable that there's a risk that Zophar could return again.

Zophar's power could survive after his death, and could let him be revived again, but at least for now he's gone--either dead, or sealed away for a second time. KF

[ilovemyguitar]

Zophar himself says several times that humanity's dark side is what revived him, so as long as there's darkness in humanity, it's conceivable that there's a risk that Zophar could return again.

Zophar's power could survive after his death, and could let him be revived again, but at least for now he's gone--either dead, or sealed away for a second time. KF

I think an outside entity, either human or godlike, attempting to claim Zophar's power would fit in better with the general style of the Lunar series. It's always about some character attemping to use divine power for personal gain; Althena's power in Lunar in Lunar 1 and 2, the Dragonmaster's power in DS, and the Blue Dragon's power in Walking School/Magic School.

[Alunissage]

Zophar himself says several times that humanity's dark side is what revived him, so as long as there's darkness in humanity, it's conceivable that there's a risk that Zophar could return again.

In the novels? I seem to recall hearing that although he says something of the sort when he's defeated in the US EB, he doesn't in the Japanese one. Have you played that one yet?

[Angelalex242]

In EBC, he definitely does the 'I will never be truly defeated' thing villains often say.

Of course, if he does come back, it'll probably take him a few thousand years.

Or, possibly, some mortal will eat Zophar's powers and become a new evil god. Either way, somebody will come calling if there's ever another game.

...I probably shouldn't comment on the other two, as my opinions are...uh...somewhat biased.

[Kizyr]

Zophar himself says several times that humanity's dark side is what revived him, so as long as there's darkness in humanity, it's conceivable that there's a risk that Zophar could return again.

In the novels? I seem to recall hearing that although he says something of the sort when he's defeated in the US EB, he doesn't in the Japanese one. Have you played that one yet?

Oh I never got back to that... As much as I recall, he does say directly that humanity's dark side is what revived him; in the novels, he says that's what brought him on the Blue Star as well.

I can't recall directly if he says anything to that effect about being revived after his defeat in EB (he doesn't directly after being beaten, but he might at another point). I'll see if he does when I finish the EB novels, and when I get around to replaying EBC. KF

[Alunissage]

Sorry, I wasn't clear on that I was asking about. If I recall correctly, JWL's notes on differences between the US and Japanese EB say that as he's defeated in the US one he says that as long as there's darkness in the hearts of humans he can return, or something like that, while in the Japanese one he just yells wordlessly. So I'm wondering if there's anything in the novels where he's saying at the time of his defeat specifically that he can/will come back.

[Angelalex242]

Actually.

Let my hijack this topic for a moment.

Do Althena (and/or her human incarnations), Lucia, and Zophar have DNA? The question came up elseMU, and opinions varied.

Note that if Althena does not have DNA, and her human incarnations don't either, it'd explain why Luna never had kids. There's no DNA there for Alex's to make a new human with.

[phyco126]

Intresting question. Well, I would assume no DNA, but, I would think the reincarnations would have DNA.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

Actually.

Let my hijack this topic for a moment.

Do Althena (and/or her human incarnations), Lucia, and Zophar have DNA? The question came up elseMU, and opinions varied.

Note that if Althena does not have DNA, and her human incarnations don't either, it'd explain why Luna never had kids. There's no DNA there for Alex's to make a new human with.

It'd be astonishing if Luna made it to the age she was in TSS without ever bleeding...ESPECIALLY considering that she had certainly started puberty.