Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

This board is for general discussion of Lunar. Especially things such as Lunar merchandise, general discussions about the story that span more than one game, etc.

Which one do you like better?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:47 am

Lunar: Silver Star
6
25%
Lunar: Eternal Blue
9
38%
Lunar: Silver Star Complete
7
29%
Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete
2
8%
 
Total votes: 24

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FrozenInTheLights
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Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by FrozenInTheLights »

Im assuming everyone who is reading this has beat both, but just incase there is a huge spoiler alert, so if you're still playing either of them, don't read this.

Ok, so I owned both of the Lunar games for Sega CD and both the completes for playstation, and for a long time I've heard a ton of people say how much better Silver Star Story was. I hear people say that the characters weren't as memorable, the voices were more annoying (ok ok I know Leo's can get annoying), and how the first one had a better storyline.

You really can't compare the two, because of how DIFFERENT the stories are, but I;m going to try and make the best possible comparison I can, as I actually enjoyed the second one more (as which while be explained here).

First things first, the storyline.

Ok, in the first one everyone in theory knows everyone. Alex, Nall, Ramus, and Luna all know each other right away. You then meet Nash, who is madly in love with Mia and Vane, then you meet Mel, who is the father of Jessica, which ties in Kyle from this whole mess, and Laike turns out to be Dyne, so 10 or so hours into the game you know everyones background and that Ghaleon is actually the Magic Emperor. The whole reason for Alex's quest to become dragonmaster becomes much more urgent when Luna's captured, because the whole story is foreshadowed when Ghaleon goes with Luna and Alex to Burg and asks Alex if he'd save the world or the person he loved most(which he manges to do both, lol). I get why people are drawn to this storyline, a love story that involves someone doing whatever he can to save the girl he loves. The bonds between the characters are very strong, which shows a good side of basic human nature: stay loyal to those who are loyal to you.

Eternal Blue, on the other hand, has a completely different storyline and completely different character ties. Lucia comes from the Blue Star completely oblivous to human life and has the direct mission to speak to the Goddess Althena. She runs into Hiro and Ruby, and she gets blasted by Zophar so she's completely useless. Meeting each character in this game is A LOT different then in the first. Each character has his or her own personal past that he or she has to come to terms with. *(Ronfar giving up being a priest because of Mauri, Jean giving up martial arts because of Lunn, Leo has to come to terms with himself, Lemina has to come to terms with her failed attempts at restoring Vane and Borgan's relationship with her mother)* Lucia learns to be human, Ruby finally learns to be a dragon (Nall just had to in the first one because of timely circumstances), and Hiro falls in love with Lucia. Each of the 4 "heroes" and the "dragonmaster" are pawns under the influence of Zophar (as were the Vile Tribe with Ghaleon, but in a MUCH different way). Anyway, Lucia ends up not believing Luna, tries to beat Zophar herself, cant, and therefore it's up to this band of people who have their own personal issues that they finally resolved. Ghaleon knows humanity can beat Zophar because humanity beat HIM, but it is IMPOSSIBLE for Lucia to believe this after being deserted on the Blue Star. Plus this has an epilogue, which adds a lot to the storyline.

As you can see, they're COMPLETELY different.

Ok, so people complain about the characters. So here we go.

Hiro Vs. Alex

Ok, I can completely understand this one. After playing the first one, Alex is a humble, soft-spoken kid who wants to be like his hero Dyne. He's easily loved. The one thing I think a lot of people miss with Hiro is that he is one of the few people who believe in history. Hiro is much more out-going, much more vocal, and honestly he's a lot more versatile than Alex. Alex already knows the girl he falls in love with, and it's almost easier for him to love Luna especially because she is captured and he has to save her. Hiro has to fall in love with Lucia and adapt to her goddess qualities and be patient as she learns to act as a human. So I understand why everyone loves Alex so much, but Hiro deserves his props.

Ruby vs Nall.

Again, I get this one too. Ruby is much more obnoxious than Nall. Ruby already believes she is a red dragon, whereas Nall just doesn't talk about it. Both of them are very close to both their respective "owners," and like I said before, Ruby has to learn to become a red dragon as the game goes on; whereas Nall just had no choice, fly them to the Goddess Tower or the world's doomed.

Jean vs Nash

This seemed like the only comparison I could make, seeing as how both of them don't have parents (well, Nash's aren't mentioned). Jean gives up martial arts because of her past, while Nash is an obnoxious cocky magician. Nash does whatever he can to protect Mia, whereas Jean's main objective is to come to terms with her past and then eventually defeat Zophar. Jean is much more enjoyable to play with as well as listen to , because she isn't afraid of anything, whereas Nash is scared of everything and goes crazy.

Lemina vs Mia

Lol, this is probably the funniest comparison to do. They are COMPLETE opposites. Lemina is obesessed with money, but shes just as insecure as Mia is (well, until she stops the Grindery). A lot of people have told me that they were upset that Lemina was so different than Mia, but honestly I think they did a great job with Lemina. Yes, everyone loves Mia, will always love Mia, but she obviously didn't do a very good job instilling into people to rebuild Vane. At least Lemina TRIES to do that.

Ronfar vs. Kyle AND Jessica

Well since there are more characters in two then there are in one, lets make this fun. So you liked Jessica and Kyle in the first one? Well you get BOTH of them in one character (which kind of leads me to a theory that Ronfar is actually a descendent of these two, but thats farfetched). Ronfar is obnoxious and obsessed with women like Kyle is, but he has that priest swagger and attitude like Jessica does. Sure, the relationship between Kyle and Jessica adds to both of their likeability, but Ronfar is hilarious. He's one of those guys you see at the bar and laugh at the whole time. Plus who can hate someone who always has a twig in his mouth, and is just as, if not more perverted, than Kyle.

The Four "Heroes"

Leo Vs Dyne.
Ok they both have incredible sword talent, one is the protector of Althena (lol at irony) and the other was the dragonmaster that put Althena into her last human form. As much as I liked Laike and Dyne in the first one, something about Leo caught my attention around the time he became "Mystere." Both he and Dyne have to live in regret and secrecy for what they have done. Leo has to hide his identity because he believes it to be right to help Hiro, while Dyne has to hide his identity so no one knows who Luna is. The link between both of them is very similar, and it's a cool little flash from the past.

Lunn Vs Mel
Both are bad guys that turn "good" in the end. Mel's a pirate known as hell Mel and then settles down with his wife and Jessica and is helps Dyne along his journey. Lunn is kind of annoying to be honest, so I can see why everyone loves Mel much more, but his impact on the game is much more significant than Mel's because of his role in the "Chosen". Granted, Mel's situation gives Jessica motivation to fight Ghaleon and the Vile Tribe, as Jean has motivation to fight Zophar because of what it did to Lunn and all of the other kids stuck in the Shadow Dragon Cult. Again, another kind of cool flash from the past.

Borgan vs Ghaleon
Oh jesus, everyone is probably thinking "how the hell are you going to compare these two" Its simple. Both are jealous -Fatal Hopper- who do whatever they can to obtain as much magical power as they can. Borgan does it by being a pawn of Zophar, and Ghaleon does it out of jealously and resentment for what Dyne did. Although Borgan isn't nearly as gifted as Ghaleon, both of them use their status as one of the heroes to manipulate people in order to better themselves. Borgan does it to create Neo-Vane and Ghaleon does it to become Magic Emperor.

Mauri vs Lemia
Both originally are loving and compassionate people. It's ironic how in the first one Lemia is the hero that is manipulated by Ghaleon as Mauri is manipulated because of the potion Ronfar gave her. They are both ruthless in their "alternate personality" but then are genuine and compassionate when they return to normal. There isn't much else to compare between these two, but it's a unique link between the two games.

Ghaleon vs well... Ghaleon.
Ghaleon pretty much acts exactly the same in both games just in reverse. Good to bad, then acts bad despite turning good. As I said before, he knows the whole time in the second one is to keep Lucia safe enough for Hiro to rescue her, because of how everything happened in the first game. It's just ironic that everything is foreshadowed with him, you KNOW he's going to be good in the end, why else would they have brought him back? He stops the destiny, shows up late at Pentiguilia, you know whats coming.

And the one everyone loves to debate: The Goddesses

Lucia Vs Luna
This is by far the hardest comparison to make between a lot of characters in a lot of different games. Everyone loves Luna right at the beginning of the game. There is nothing mysterious about her, she's Alex's little cutiepie who she is constantly reminding to do basic things of everyday life. Lucia, on the other hand, is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE. She doesn't even know what a toothbrush is let alone to tell Hiro what the hell to do with one. Luna doesnt know she is a goddess, Lucia does. Luna can sing, Lucia can't. Lucia is a badass spellcaster, Luna isn't. They both get captured, which is cool. Lucia has to learn to be a human, Luna already knows how. I could go on for days about the differences of these two,but heres the key point as to why I like Lucia better than Luna. Lucia has to learn every emotion of life and put them to practical use, and she doesn't even realize she's in love with Hiro until she leaves for the Blue Star at the end of the game, (some people will argue it's earlier, but I don't think it is), and she is the chosen one in the second game (green eyes). Luna is great, don't get me wrong, I just think Lucia is a much more interesting character.

The "Chosen One" in both games
Lucia Vs Alex

I think it's cool that they incorporated the green eyes thing into the second one. Each character has to learn what to do and how to act in his and her roles. Both developments are very interesting, and keep the gamer actively engaged in each of these characters' story, and overall they did a good job with both characters.

Final Thoughts:
The cut scenes in the second one are much better and I love how they tie the first one into the second one at the mystic ruins.
What guy isn't going to say the bromides in the first one are better?
The Epilogue is amazing in the second one, and doing it with Hiro alone is very difficult but very fun as well.
Feel free to put in any input you'd like, this is MY opinion, and I love it being challenged.

Lastly,

Play through the second one THEN play through the first one, and I think you'll understand where I'm coming from a little better.

:) :wink:

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by Benevolent_Ghaleon »

You're tired of people having an opinion that differs from yours? LOL.

I like the first Lunar better. Why would you care if you were the only one to like it most? It isn't like it can cause EB and EBC to disappear from existence.

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by DragonmasterDan »

You seem to be focusing HEAVILY on the remakes, your scenario outline doesn't mention the original story at all. Which quite frankly is a lot better.

I think between the remakes I like EB more than SSS.

But I think the best game in the series is easily TSS and the changes to the story and pacing take a big toll and result in a highly inferior remake (at least in terms of story and scenario).

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by FrozenInTheLights »

Lol, no no no I'm not tired of people having different opinions, and yes I focused on the remakes because thats what most people have played (from who I've talked to), I'm just sick of people saying that the second one is bad for poor reasons.

I guess I should have phrased it better :D .

I love both the games, and they both impacted me in a HUGE way, it's just I guess I relate to the second one better?

Not sure, but by all means, correct me in areas I may be wrong or areas where you guys/girls think silver star is better than eternal blue.

Let's get this party started!

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by FrozenInTheLights »

DragonmasterDan wrote:You seem to be focusing HEAVILY on the remakes, your scenario outline doesn't mention the original story at all. Which quite frankly is a lot better.

I think between the remakes I like EB more than SSS.

But I think the best game in the series is easily TSS and the changes to the story and pacing take a big toll and result in a highly inferior remake (at least in terms of story and scenario).
And yes, I agree, the original story for both were much better. :D But most people have a playstation, playstation two, or playstation three; whereas, not many people still have the original genesis + sega CD with both games.

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by Monde Luna »

Okay here is my opinion. My favorite game of the 4 is TSS because I love the way the story plays out and how the characters interact together. Then EB/EBC followed by SSSC. While I want to love SSSC as much as TSS I have a hard time with the gaping plot whole that is Ghaleon and Quark...

EB just isn't as cohesive for me so I like TSS better.

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by Nobiyuki77 »

Eternal Blue is my favorite, but The Silver Star is awesome, and I can see why people like it more.

But I still love Eternal Blue more.
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by NallOne »

EB > EBC > TSS > SSSC.

Just my opinion.

I liked the characters a lot more in EB and just the general atmosphere. There was something really exciting about having a "Goddess" (or equivalent, whatever) actually in your party, having her powers cursed and weakened, etc. and watching her slowly develop into a human being and bond with these people who were rather insignificant to her in the beginning. I really enjoyed that, even more so in EBC, though EB still ranks higher due to things that were removed - my biggest gripe being the crystallized Hiro aspect.

I still love TSS and even SSSC, just not as much. But I love the SERIES so much that it is really irrelevant. It is like saying which child you love more. You can't really choose a favorite, though in your heart one of them is a bit closer to you than the others. Best way I can describe it. *shrug* They're all equally magical to me and I really have to nitpick in order to separate and rank them.
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by GhaleonOne »

EB is my favorite, for sure. I'm not sure if I like TSS or EBC more though. SSSC is definitely fourth.
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by DragonmasterDan »

FrozenInTheLights wrote: And yes, I agree, the original story for both were much better. :D But most people have a playstation, playstation two, or playstation three; whereas, not many people still have the original genesis + sega CD with both games.
On this board you'll be surprised to find a great number of people with a Sega CD, CDX or X-eye and both original games.

This site goes back to 1997 ( a year and a half before Lunar SSS came out in the US for PSone and related Lunar Threads dating back to Sega-Saturn.com and beyond go back years further) go back years and years. As a result a fair number of the regular users on these forums have been part of the Lunar fan community for far longer than the remakes were available in English.

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by Sonix »

Personally, I have the Sega CD games but don't have the system. And importing a Genesis + Sega CD (I'm from Europe) would be bothersome so I just played them on PC. As for PS1 ones, I just modded my ps1 and played them(imported).

For me, it goes like this; EB > EBC > SSSC
I'll leave TSS out for now since I haven't played much of it.
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by exigence »

DragonmasterDan wrote:
FrozenInTheLights wrote: And yes, I agree, the original story for both were much better. :D But most people have a playstation, playstation two, or playstation three; whereas, not many people still have the original genesis + sega CD with both games.
On this board you'll be surprised to find a great number of people with a Sega CD, CDX or X-eye and both original games.

This site goes back to 1997 ( a year and a half before Lunar SSS came out in the US for PSone and related Lunar Threads dating back to Sega-Saturn.com and beyond go back years further) go back years and years. As a result a fair number of the regular users on these forums have been part of the Lunar fan community for far longer than the remakes were available in English.
who's got an X-eye, those babys are pretty wild looking. not as wild as a pioneer laseractive tho.

Im more of a fan of TSS because i can beat it in two or three days nothing beats instant gratification, but like you said there completely different games.
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by joker_mausland »

I've always enjoyed Lunar 2 EB better than Lunar SSS and I am really hoping after SSH comes out the creators will think of doing another Lunar 2 game.

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by phyco126 »

haha, the first lunar is still winning when combined. =P
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by Aquaignis »

I really wish that i could play the originals! You guys make me feel like I'm missing out on half of everything that is Lunar... :( I have beaten both of the remakes, which I love, (SSSC is my fav. of the two) I feel...inferior now...
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by DragonmasterDan »

exigence wrote: who's got an X-eye, those babys are pretty wild looking. not as wild as a pioneer laseractive tho.

Im more of a fan of TSS because i can beat it in two or three days nothing beats instant gratification, but like you said there completely different games.
I have two, though only one complete one (system, AC adapter, JVC controller) one I had to fix since the CD tray constantly thought it was open. The other I found at a goodwill and works fine but it came cord and controller-less.

I actually own all US versions of the Sega CD (CD 1, CD 2, X-eye and CDX) EXCEPT the Laseractive. Oddly enough I own the Mega LD of Triad Stone, I just don't have the hardware (or the Mega LD pack).

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by liquidpolicenaut »

I totally agree with this thread. EB doesnt get enough recognition. For me it's always been:
EB > TSS > EBC-->SSSC
exigence wrote: who's got an X-eye, those babys are pretty wild looking. not as wild as a pioneer laseractive tho.
Even better is the JVC/Sega Wondermega! The X'Eye was actually the Wondermega 2 in Japan. I love playing both Lunars on my baby....
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by Theta »

Eternal Blue Complete was the first Lunar game I played, so it is always going to be my favorite.
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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by Silver Phoenix »

I'm late in responding here, but if you were one of the people like me who played Lunar: The Silver Star when it was originally released you'll understand why it's the best. A game of that caliber for the time was moving. The fully orchestrated soundtrack and the story just worked "harmoniously."

The original games are far better than the remakes, regardless of the animation. The original Eternal Blue is better than the remake, and even graphically made a bigger impact because of how much work they put into the art style. There was more animation in the backgrounds that even the remake lacked, and the music was better in some respects. They also cut pivotal scenes that were not in the remake. One of the things that was better in the remake was the ommission of paying for saves and abilities.

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Re: Im kind of sick of people saying the first lunar was better

Post by Jenner »

I just have to say other than Lunar: Legend and Lunar: Dragon Song which don't really count. I have ALWAYS hated Lunar: SSSC. I hated it because it changed a lot of things, and it changed many things in bad ways. I didn't need two to three extra busty scantily clad hookers flouncing around being meaningless. I didn't need Pedo-Ghaleon, and while I will admit that powering the Grindery on the tortured husks of the Dragons was totally epic. It doesn't explain why it spouted so much goddamn pollution or why the mines were still open well after the completion of the metal husk, or why it STILL drained out the Meribian Lake to power it's steam-ship like engineering if it was instead being powered on tortured dragons. I'm just saying, this extra evil -Dragon Diamond- was just forced into the original game, it was completely out of place. The forced in content and added unnecessary length made me hate the game. There were some changes I did like, like keeping Luna around longer, the new songs, but a lot of changes that didn't make any sense. Why would you take magic away from Alex? Why do they let him in Vane in the first place if he doesn't have the ability to cast Magic?

No. -Fatal Hopper- you Lunar SSSC.

TSS has a nostalgia to me, it was the game that started it all. But, yes. Eternal Blue is better than The Silver Star because it's more mature, the characters are more in depth and the story is more epic. But what MADE EB so epic is because as you played the games it was self referential to TSS. You returned to places you knew from the original game, you got to see how you affected history, you got to learn what happened afterwards. You got to relive the Lunar Experience all over again bigger and brighter.

That being said, EBC > SSSC because SSSC is -Dung Beetle-.

And that's why this new Lunar remake can suck my metaphorical balls. Because the changes don't make sense. Lunar: The Silver Star is a glorious story, it was completely marketable in it's original and intended form. There is no reason to throw in extra T&A and add some kind of love conflict. No reason to -Fatal Hopper- with perfection. No reason to make this vomited up remix of perfection the canon representation of Lunar.

The story of Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete is dead to me. It doesn't exist. Just like any movie in the Alien franchise after Aliens.
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