Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

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cj iwakura
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Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by cj iwakura »

I hope I'm not the only one annoyed with this. While some developers add challenge and (difficult) content to their games, GameArts(or whoever they pawn Lunar off on) continue to make each Lunar remake easier.


The Sega CD games: huge world maps, random battles, difficult boss fights, vast dungeons.

PSX: drastically reduced world map, no random battles, easy boss fights, smaller dungeons.

PSP: no world map whatsoever, no random battles, even easier fights and smaller dungeons.


Granted, I started with the Sega CD games, so maybe these remakes aren't for me, but even Square Enix's Final Fantasy remakes on the DS and PSP keep the difficulty intact.

If anything, they frequently make the games harder.

So what's with Game Arts? Is Lunar strictly just a casual 'lite' RPG now? Because if so, that makes me sad.
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localflick
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by localflick »

Yep, and it's not just Lunar. When Shining Force was remade for the GBA it was really easy and the original wasn't that hard until you got pretty far into it. But compared to Fire Emblem it's way easier. Do they think newer gamers can't handle the originals or something?

At least the new SMB for Wii is hard.

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Aaron
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Aaron »

I know that the random battles in the Complete series were set numbers. But for the boss battles, it was some formula based on Alex's HP & Level. I just think the multiplier wasn't large enough for the function.

But I think Harmony was plagued with design and coding problems. I heard it was really hard to develop. I agree with your complaints.

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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Kizyr »

I think SSS/TSS is the exception. TSS for SCD was much easier than SSSC for the PS1/Saturn. Every other case, however, the games have been getting easier (even from SSS to Lunar: Legend and then Lunar: SSH). ...actually, Lunar: Legend is slightly easier than SSH if you ask me. KF
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Lunar3coming »

cj iwakura wrote:I hope I'm not the only one annoyed with this. While some developers add challenge and (difficult) content to their games, GameArts(or whoever they pawn Lunar off on) continue to make each Lunar remake easier.


The Sega CD games: huge world maps, random battles, difficult boss fights, vast dungeons.

PSX: drastically reduced world map, no random battles, easy boss fights, smaller dungeons.

PSP: no world map whatsoever, no random battles, even easier fights and smaller dungeons.


Granted, I started with the Sega CD games, so maybe these remakes aren't for me, but even Square Enix's Final Fantasy remakes on the DS and PSP keep the difficulty intact.

If anything, they frequently make the games harder.

So what's with Game Arts? Is Lunar strictly just a casual 'lite' RPG now? Because if so, that makes me sad.
I totally agree with your sentiment here. I loved the massive world and dungeon maps in TSS. That's a shame that the maps are so small in SSH.

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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Lunar Eclipse »

First, I don't really see how random battles or world maps in and of themselves make games "harder". If anything, they'd make them easier given games equal in all other respects because you'd pretty much be forced to level up more often unless you wanted to rely on a somewhat unreliable fleeing mechanic. That's not to say that I don't miss TSS's map, but I don't see what it has to do with difficulty, unless you just mean that it was sometimes more difficult to figure out what the heck to do next, which I wasn't really very fond of when the story was so linear anyway.

And, well, second, I don't think Lunar ever wasn't somewhat casual in terms of gameplay. TSS just consisted of semi-annoying grinding (like around Meribia to get Flamer, etc.), and SSSC, though slightly "harder" than SSH in terms of enemy stats, was still just a matter of churning out the same tactics over and over again, particularly since the turn order provided by agility in that game was set in stone.

The only major thing I think has been lost in terms of difficulty is the need to "equip" items, which probably could've been fixed by just capping the max carrying capacity for each item. If anything, I found a bit more challenge in SSH simply because the turn order didn't make much sense, with Jessica going first in one round and last in the next. SSSC was completely devoid of that randomness and therefore didn't seem "hard" to me. I'm also well aware of the fact that SSH's system can often mean frustration rather than difficulty, but I did end up dying a few times from it whereas I'm pretty sure Fate Storm was the only thing that ever got me in SSSC.
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by MaroonChan »

Yeah, it seems to be most games that are remade. Which is so lame. I remember wondering if CT for DS was easier, or if it was just cause I've played it so much. But it doesn't seem to just be Lunar.

I mean I remember how hard Borgan was in EB, and in EBC he was way easier.

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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by cj iwakura »

Not always. FFIV for the DS is vastly more difficult than the earlier versions, for one.


And regarding TSS being the hardest, I'll cite the Vane Trial as the biggest example.

In TSS, it's a four tier dungeon full of nasty monsters and tough bosses, and lots of winding paths.

In SSSC, there are no monsters, just bosses. And really, really easy ones. The dungeon is extremely linear, too. (This might be a plus for some, but I think it made it way too easy.)

In the original, you HAD to get Alex's magic up to snuff to stand a chance against the wolf pack and the Brainiac. In SSSC, you can pretty much just storm your way through it.

Also, having Luna along in the remake makes the Water Dragon much easier, as opposed to just having Alex and Ramus.
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Solana
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Solana »

Touche on the Vane trial cave, but there was the attempt to make up for it by adding the 'mountain trails' by places such as Nanza and Tamur. (And the same technique in EBC.) They probably figured that we needed a few leveling up hotspots.

One more example- FF Origins compared to the original Final Fantasy on NES. I remember the battle with Astos in the NES version was as monumental as toppling Borgan in EB. (Another fight that shouldn't have been easier in a remake.) Going through it on the PS was just laughable.
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by MaroonChan »

Er there were monsters in SSSC and one boss at the end. I just recently re-played that, and I remember monsters running around.

Can't say for FFIV for DS. Though I do remember reading in the guide for the PS remake that in Japan there had been too versions. One normal (I'm guessing that's what it was. I don't remember too well) and a hard version. I forget what the english SNES one was and the PS one. *shrug*

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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Saga »

Seems to me in this day and age it's a growing trend! A lot of the dated games of the past actually were a lot more difficult than a few of today's games. Developers seem to give the players a lot more options so that the game is fun for a wider range of people, which is pretty good because more people can play the game. :3 But that's just my own opinion, based on my own experience.

I haven't played the new Lunar PSP remake. I own it, I just don't have the PSP. ;0;. I will get one soon hopefully. D:

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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Lunar Eclipse »

cj iwakura wrote:And regarding TSS being the hardest, I'll cite the Vane Trial as the biggest example.

...

Also, having Luna along in the remake makes the Water Dragon much easier, as opposed to just having Alex and Ramus.
These are really just a function of having Luna along, which, while it made that segment of the game easier overall, was a pretty excellent decision in terms of characterization, in my opinion. I'd gladly trade a bit of the difficulty against two bosses for Luna actually having some character aside from a simple, "Hi! Bye."
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Vyse of Arcadia »

Lunar Eclipse wrote:These are really just a function of having Luna along, which, while it made that segment of the game easier overall, was a pretty excellent decision in terms of characterization, in my opinion. I'd gladly trade a bit of the difficulty against two bosses for Luna actually having some character aside from a simple, "Hi! Bye."
Seconded, if only for the boat song.

I really liked the non-random battles, personally. But the remakes really do keep getting easier. Lunar isn't the only series this has happened to, though. Try Final Fantasy V or VI Advance sometime. They both have much, much, much better localizations, but they're a joke in terms of difficulty.

Although, come to think of it, so far FFIV DS has been pretty much on par with what I remember on the SNES. Hm.

I've heard that even the remake of Persona is easier, but that may just be because certain bits of dialogue were translated properly this time.
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Shiva Indis »

It's not a good idea to force the player into fights with just one PC in a JRPG; TSS is one of the reasons why I have this opinion. The game is hard when Alex has to fight solo, but has a pretty standard difficulty level the rest of the time. I'm tempted to say that WD may have tweaked SSSC into the most challenging version of Lunar 1, but it's been too long since I played it.
Vyse of Arcadia wrote:I've heard that even the remake of Persona is easier, but that may just be because certain bits of dialogue were translated properly this time.
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Alunissage »

The general tweaks WD did to SSSC were to give the regular enemies higher attack and fewer HP, and drop less EXP and money. At least one of those changes was pretty much 10% across the board, but I forget which. The data I have are not conducive to checking the boss stats but the SSH guide makes that easy enough.

Some enemy and boss stats were also changed in TSS, but not as predictably. Unfortunately, the TSS guide doesn't have the stats for the last two or three boss battles, so I can't check those numbers. Given how simple the damage calculations are in that game it should be possible to approximate most of them empirically, but I don't know of a good way to deduce the Agility stat.

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cj iwakura
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by cj iwakura »

Vyse of Arcadia wrote:I've heard that even the remake of Persona is easier, but that may just be because certain bits of dialogue were translated properly this time.
Persona PSP is much harder than the PS1 version.

It's still not that difficult, especially since they updated the interface so you're not blindly arranging a party formation, but the enemies do more damage, take longer to kill, and use instant death spells more frequently.

It also includes the Snow Queen quest, which is reportedly much harder than the main quest.
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Re: Why do the remakes keep getting easier?

Post by Alan_Geitz »

I suppose the difficulty of a game has to be factored in when considering the console.
While SSSC might not have been as difficult as SSS, it was the absence of monsters in the overworld that made the transition through the game much smoother. It also allowed them to make the monsters much more difficult to fight in the dungeons.
I will lament the absence of the limited item system from SSSC, though; it did offer an additional bit of strategy needed to make it through the fights and it always kept you on your toes; it felt much more different when a boss took out your designated item healer. XD
In the case of Harmony, the stakes are different.
They had to make a challenging yet entertaining game with a great story, all the while taking several factors into consideration.
Yes, we know the cliches have been done before, but rarely is it done so well!
In spite of its rich history and reputation, the ghost of Final Fantasy still looms over every RPG that isn't made by Squaresoft/SquareEnix.

Sure, the difficulty may have dropped significantly (a good gamer probably could've made it through this game without using items quite easily), but it gained an even better story and one hell of an upgrade in the audio-visual department. In fact, this may be the closest we'll ever get to an "arranged" soundtrack.
(Now, if we can only get those image songs and drama tracks...)
All things considered, Harmony is a definitive Lunar game for the new ages, just as Complete was for the next-generation of that era.
Classic or remake, I think we can agree that Lunar is a series worthy of a place in the Hall of Gaming Legends, don't you?

It doesn't have the fame and popularity of other RPGs or even other games, but I have never came across a single person that has yet to speak negatively of this series.
(Yes, I tend to use the Lunar series as a basis for determining one's "game geekiness".)

I believe the true essence of this series is in its storytelling, an aspect that tends to get overlooked in most modern games that almost rely more on visual spectacles and blatant fanservice to draw a crowd, yet where are those games now, but lost to the ages.
Anyone remember Heavenly Sword? How about Sudeki?
For all its hype, even the most popular games today may become nothing more than a footnote in gaming history.
Such is the fate of lesser games, but not with Lunar.
Time has been kind to the series. The entire series runs on nostalgia, but it isn't bound by it.
The absence of WD's handiwork, while tragic in its own right, has allowed the series to stand on its own merits.

Now, had this game been released on a console system, things may have been a little different and we may have had another overhaul...maybe even a difficulty spike, but we we're mostly in it for the story. For the experience.

As it's been said before, I'd gladly sacrifice some difficulty for more story.
Considering the other bells and whistles that came with it (upgraded graphics/soundtrack, even more story), I'd say we got one hell of a bargain.

Hope truly does spring eternal for Lunar, doesn't it?

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