Lunar 2: something got lost from Lunar 1?

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Alunissage
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Re: Lunar 2: something got lost from Lunar 1?

Postby Alunissage » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:32 am

Yes, the change in portrayal of Althena's temples and worship in general is probably the change that bothered me the most -- well, except for the music, but the TSS temple music was possibly the piece I missed the most. Between that and the cool blue palette of the temple, shrines, and dragon treasure rooms, there was this austere otherworldliness about Althenaism that detached it from petty human machinations (and having the equally detached, mysterious dragons in there didn't hurt). That also fit better with the storyline of Luna being just one of Althena's many incarnations rather than her having been embroiled in petty humanity to the point of deciding that humans were using her as a crutch. There are little shrines scattered around that exist to heal people and bless them -- and one can see the progression from these isolated priestesses accepting money (which I can imagine being used to help people and/or simply support the priestesses so they can continue to help people) to the money-grubbing priests of Eternal Blue. Having statues around instead of shrines in SSSC obscures that connection.

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Re: Lunar 2: something got lost from Lunar 1?

Postby Kizyr » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:02 am

Alunissage wrote:Yes, the change in portrayal of Althena's temples and worship in general is probably the change that bothered me the most -- well, except for the music, but the TSS temple music was possibly the piece I missed the most. Between that and the cool blue palette of the temple, shrines, and dragon treasure rooms, there was this austere otherworldliness about Althenaism that detached it from petty human machinations (and having the equally detached, mysterious dragons in there didn't hurt).

Right, I nearly forgot about the music (at least that was offset by there being 3-4 themes in the SSS soundtrack that I really liked, so it wasn't a total loss). As for the cool blue palette of the temples/shrines and all, well... ...you remember the color theme of me and Jenner's wedding, so it's clear how much I liked that {^^}.

I feel like we should have a better name for the predominant Lunar belief system... Althenaism sounds too clunky. Maybe Lunaric Paganism? ...Dragononism? KF
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Re: Lunar 2: something got lost from Lunar 1?

Postby Enclave » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:37 am

Kizyr wrote:
Alunissage wrote:I still liked the feel of the world better in TSS, somehow. Part of it was that I didn't like the corrupt religion/dark god atmosphere as much, since it was kind of depressing, and the world felt emptier to me (maybe because there weren't little shrines scattered around).

I definitely see all your points. More on this one that stands out... While the corrupt religion part didn't bother me so much in EB, the one change that I dislike the most in going from TSS to SSS was that they ported over part of the whole corrupt religion motif. The entire tone of their worship (...Althenaism?) had an almost pure/innocent/genuine feel in TSS, and the contrast in EB where it takes on a rigid hierarchy was fascinating precisely because it was a contrast. When they backed up and put the same elements in SSS, the contrast was gone, and that aspect of the games' context was just lost.

...that being said, I do think the battle gameplay and many other specific plot points were done better in SSS (especially relationships between the characters). But that one change always bugged me the most. KF


What exactly do you mean by that? The only corruption in SSS that stands out is Phacia being inserted into the church near Althena's Fortress as a way to prevent people from easily entering Vane.

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Re: Lunar 2: something got lost from Lunar 1?

Postby Alunissage » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:08 pm

What he said was "part of the whole corrupt religion motif". I assume he's referring to the cathedral part, and for that matter the hierarchy. It's a lot more similar to the EB version of religion than the original TSS trappings were. Besides the styling of the temple and shrines, there also wasn't much in the way of a leader position TO abuse. Actually, I don't remember if you have to go to the Temple of Althena for any reason at all in TSS, whereas the application business forces you to in SSS.

I never thought of Phacia being placed there specifically as a gatekeeper of Vane, by the way. Just as someone who would have a pretext to investigate possible Althena sightings as part of her duties.

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Re: Lunar 2: something got lost from Lunar 1?

Postby Leo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:44 pm

Kizyr wrote:
LunarRaptor wrote:There's just this... innocence to LUNAR 1 that attracts me time and again. I enjoyed the simplicity of it. I loved how straightforward characters were, and how they weren't all dark and troubled pasts and angst (you have me discovering the series after playing too many Final Fantasy games for that. After Cloud and Squall, I needed to see characters who were capable of smiling). I enjoyed the light-hearted feel of adventure that felt like it came from the imagination of a child (not in a bad way. I'm thinking of Earthbound/Mother 2 when I say that). I liked the upbeat music, the colorful designs, the simple-to-master gameplay, and the feeling that I could just explore the world of LUNAR until the end of days. I hope my little ramblings made sense. I didbn't exactly organize them.

No that makes plenty of sense, really. Sometimes, delving deep into a basic story and doing it really well works a lot better in terms of getting someone engrossed in it than, say, developing a complex and intricate plot that someone needs to take footnotes to follow. Those are two extremes (and I don't think EB falls into the latter), but it goes towards showing how sometimes less is more in a story. ...sometimes.

Like, I really love Eternal Blue more than The Silver Star, for many reasons. But I have to admit that TSS is just really engaging at a deeper level that's hard to explain by just the bare facts or a simple plot summary.

At the end of it all, I prefer to rate games based on a gut instinct of how much I enjoyed playing it. After that, maybe I'll dissect the reasons why. It might not even come out until months later after I've been able to discuss the plot or characters with other people, either (in some cases -- like with Final Fantasy Tactics -- I didn't even like the game until someone else gave me reasons why they liked it so much). KF


Xenogears. lol

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Re: Lunar 2: something got lost from Lunar 1?

Postby Kizyr » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:28 am

Enclave wrote:What exactly do you mean by that? The only corruption in SSS that stands out is Phacia being inserted into the church near Althena's Fortress as a way to prevent people from easily entering Vane.

Mostly what Alunissage said... Basically, Lunarian Paganism went from a very localized and spread out practice to a central hierarchy, and it seems that it was done for the sole purpose of establishing more continuity with EB -- that is, you could more easily see how it morphed from what it was in SSS to what it became in EB. I didn't think that was necessary, and it felt like it added in something unnatural/foreign to the TSS/SSS story. On top of that, the main interaction you have with the Shrine's hierarchy is through the one person who infiltrated the structure from the Vile Tribe. KF
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Re: Lunar 2: something got lost from Lunar 1?

Postby Leo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:49 am

Kizyr wrote:
Enclave wrote:What exactly do you mean by that? The only corruption in SSS that stands out is Phacia being inserted into the church near Althena's Fortress as a way to prevent people from easily entering Vane.

Mostly what Alunissage said... Basically, Lunarian Paganism went from a very localized and spread out practice to a central hierarchy, and it seems that it was done for the sole purpose of establishing more continuity with EB -- that is, you could more easily see how it morphed from what it was in SSS to what it became in EB. I didn't think that was necessary, and it felt like it added in something unnatural/foreign to the TSS/SSS story. On top of that, the main interaction you have with the Shrine's hierarchy is through the one person who infiltrated the structure from the Vile Tribe. KF


I'd say it's a lot more than "seems". I noticed the same thing when I went back and played the Sega CD games. Aside from gameplay arguments I have with some remakes, I love that the story is a bit different each time. It makes it more "real". Like it's an actual story and there are disagreements with the details of how it all went down but the general outline is still there.

I love the shrines in TSS but I wish they had Goddess statues in them. I don't care for the things on the world map that you use to recover HP and MP.


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