Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Imperial Knight » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:30 am

Greco12 wrote:Not sure if it adds much to the discussion, but I did find this blog post on Luna, Jessica, and Mia. Just as an aside, I did ask the blogger over Google about the whole Pao sickness sub-plot, and he argued that, while it was problematic, Jess and Mia were pro-active and important enough to the plot that it didn't take anything away from their characters.


Well, I think seeing any perspectives (provided they're not, like, abusive or something) adds to the discussion. My critique (of the blog post, not you) is that it seems to be too focused on an agenda (putting forth the Lunar women as positive characters in response to nebulous "opponents of gaming") in a way which, to me, gets in the way of character analysis.

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Greco12 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:05 am

Shinto-Cetra wrote:Attempting to get this train back on the original track: I think Jess was overall a good character. She was independent, cool, funny etc. The one thing that struck me as odd was how Mia inherited Vane, but Jess never inherited Meribia. Maybe she inherited Meribia sometime after the main story? That would make a cool side story.


In-game NPC dialogue and the Lunatic Festa drama CD seem to imply that she moved out of Mel's mansion to live with Kyle.* It makes sense to me that she wouldn't inherit her dad's estate, since in Lunar 2 Lunn was governor and had converted it to a dojo. I'm pretty sure the estate belonged to Jessica's mom's family and Mel inherited it by virtue of being her husband. Also, keep in mind that Mel was just a governor, an elected official as opposed to being a monarch like Lemia and Mia (okay, they were head of a guild, but they were part of a long-running dynasty). That, and the 1000-year gap between 1 and 2.

Alunissage wrote:And I really didn't like the bits I saw of Jess's and Luna's portrayals in SSH either.


I'm guessing your referring to that one additional scene in Meryod where she and Kyle get into a heated argument. I disliked that scene because it made their relationship with one another look really ugly and abusive. I was cringing throughout that scene; I thought the writers went a little too far there. On that note, I feel like both of them (especially Kyle, since Jessica at least had a decent amount of interaction with the other party members early on, and we get a pretty good understanding of her relationship with her dad) could have used less of the stereotypical anime-tsundere couple moments.

*An NPC in Meribia says that one day Jessica will move out of the house and get married. And in the audio drama, she can be heard fixing a meal for Kyle, who chokes on it.

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Kizyr » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:59 am

Greco12 wrote:In-game NPC dialogue and the Lunatic Festa drama CD seem to imply that she moved out of Mel's mansion to live with Kyle.* It makes sense to me that she wouldn't inherit her dad's estate, since in Lunar 2 Lunn was governor and had converted it to a dojo. I'm pretty sure the estate belonged to Jessica's mom's family and Mel inherited it by virtue of being her husband. Also, keep in mind that Mel was just a governor, an elected official as opposed to being a monarch like Lemia and Mia (okay, they were head of a guild, but they were part of a long-running dynasty). That, and the 1000-year gap between 1 and 2.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that, with Meribia turning into a free city with a governor (...whether he was elected or not, Mel is at least popular and loved by the people of the city), they'd turn over the estate to the city? In other words, it's no longer a family estate, but now it's specifically the governor's mansion -- so when Mel is retired from politics, they'll move out of the mansion and let the next governor move in.

They didn't explicitly state this in the games, but given Mel's personality and the fact that by Lunar 2 it's become Lunn's dojo (and place of administration of the city), that seems the logical course of events.

Curious if anyone else gathered the same idea as I did from this. KF
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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Alunissage » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:30 pm

That would make sense to me, especially since by the time even of Lunar 1 the noble family that Jessica's mother is from is barely known. And after all, the mansion already had training grounds and such.

Is it explicit that Jessica never came to govern Meribia herself, though? I can think of reasons why she'd choose not to, but I don't remember it being said outright that she didn't.

And I totally missed Greco12's response to me months ago. No, I've never played that far in SSH. It's the voice acting I'm thinking of (which I heard in SSS Touch) and characterization in that. They wrote Luna as "sassy" (Jessica @ XSEED's word), and I just don't feel like that's an attitude or character that there's any shortage of. I think the feistiness she occasionally shows in SSSC is about right; any more starts rubbing me the wrong way (and is amply filled by Nall). Maybe this is because I'm a grownup and the cast is the age of Get Off My Lawn, but I didn't like it much when I was a teenager either.

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Kizyr » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:59 am

Alunissage wrote:Is it explicit that Jessica never came to govern Meribia herself, though? I can think of reasons why she'd choose not to, but I don't remember it being said outright that she didn't.

I haven't seen anything confirming (or even hinting) at whether or not she governed Meribia at all later in life. I'm of a similar mind though: the absence implies she didn't, since I think it'd be really odd if she governed and no one ever mentioned it (while it's not as surprising the other way around). KF
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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby kazuya » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:46 am

Seeing Jessica yell at the guy testing the gang in Myght's tower after she failed is all you need to know about Jessica. And the part where Kyle says her mood swings are more violent than a hurricane... :lol:
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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Raining51 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:27 pm

I'm all over the place

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby ShugoHanasaki » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:47 pm

kazuya wrote:Seeing Jessica yell at the guy testing the gang in Myght's tower after she failed is all you need to know about Jessica. And the part where Kyle says her mood swings are more violent than a hurricane... :lol:
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Nall is so happy to say that! lmao
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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Alunissage » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:19 pm

I have never cared for that line of Kyle's. It's basically a PMS joke, which I don't find funny.

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby kazuya » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:28 am

Alunissage I totally respect that, but would it be acceptable to point out that the whole point of the translations by Working Design at that time were simply to make the game culturally relatable to Americans? Can we at least acknowledge that the line was likely not made with bad intent at that time? Those same people probably wouldn't make such a joke now since it represents something very different in our culture? Honestly I wouldn't even be saying this unless I loved the game so much as it is. I know it's not a work of art or anything but it is something I, just like you, grew up with. Are some parts offensive to me? Sure, but I still love the game a whole damn lot!
Darkness beyond twilight
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Buried in the stream of time is where your power grows
I pledge myself to conquer all the foes who stand
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Let the fools who stand before me be destroyed
by the power you and I possess...
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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Sonic# » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:43 pm

Alunissage I totally respect that, but would it be acceptable to point out that the whole point of the translations by Working Design at that time were simply to make the game culturally relatable to Americans?


I mean, do you think that there weren't Americans in the 1990s who rolled their eyes at PMS jokes? Working Designs's audience with jokes like that was pretty juvenile. I still love Lunar, but I recognize that not everything about the localization worked well, then or now.
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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby WD RPG WD » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:21 pm

Offensive or not, Lunar has plenty of trite and cliche dialogue. The remakes also made the characters feel like caricatures of their previous selves at times (farting noises for Myght? C'mon..). I didn't notice as much when I was a kid, and usually laughed with it. As an adult, I cringe at some of the childish dialogue. Maybe the worst example is when Zophar appears and strikes Lucia with lightning and says "Tell me darling... was it good for you?" I roll my eyes when I hear it.

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby kazuya » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:30 am

Well I liked the game and all of its trite dialogue growing up...probably because it WAS made for children and I WAS a child when I formed these fond memories and mainly because that IS the target audience.
Darkness beyond twilight
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Buried in the stream of time is where your power grows
I pledge myself to conquer all the foes who stand
before the mighty gift bestowed in my unworthy hand
Let the fools who stand before me be destroyed
by the power you and I possess...
DRAGON SLAVE!

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby Alunissage » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:31 am

Dude. I just said I didn't care for the line. It was hardly a critique of the entire game or the company as a whole. Things aren't all or nothing, you know? You yourself said that you find some things offensive but you still love the game a whole lot; why would you assume I didn't feel the same?

For the record, I was already a grownup when the Lunar games came out. TSS was the first RPG I played, so at the time I found the book in Damon's Tower that says "Video games will eventually rot the minds of all they enslave" hilarious. Now I'd rather fourth-wall-breaking be just a tad more subtle than that. But it's still my favorite RPG.

WD RPG WD, that line of Zophar's really bothers me too, and I think if Victor had realized how rapey it sounded he would have rewritten it. I mean, it's not a bad metaphor for what just happened, but it's way too overt.

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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby ShugoHanasaki » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:26 pm

To this day I absolutely love the dialogue of SSSC & EBC (^.^)
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Re: Jessica: strong female character or missed opportunity?

Postby kazuya » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:05 am

Alunissage wrote:Dude. I just said I didn't care for the line. It was hardly a critique of the entire game or the company as a whole. Things aren't all or nothing, you know? You yourself said that you find some things offensive but you still love the game a whole lot; why would you assume I didn't feel the same?

For the record, I was already a grownup when the Lunar games came out. TSS was the first RPG I played, so at the time I found the book in Damon's Tower that says "Video games will eventually rot the minds of all they enslave" hilarious. Now I'd rather fourth-wall-breaking be just a tad more subtle than that. But it's still my favorite RPG.

WD RPG WD, that line of Zophar's really bothers me too, and I think if Victor had realized how rapey it sounded he would have rewritten it. I mean, it's not a bad metaphor for what just happened, but it's way too overt.



Purely for the sake of discussion I have to admit you lost me at the Zophar quote thing. Not sure what you mean. But replaying Lunar 1 as an adult definitely made me wonder whether Ghaleon is actually trying to pimp out Luna ! O.O

Anyways, as far as some REALLY offensive stuff, you probably will really want to avoid seeing the Lunar hentai. It is the most soul crushing and awful thing anybody has ever thought of doing with such a good story as Lunar.
Darkness beyond twilight
Crimson beyond blood that flows
Buried in the stream of time is where your power grows
I pledge myself to conquer all the foes who stand
before the mighty gift bestowed in my unworthy hand
Let the fools who stand before me be destroyed
by the power you and I possess...
DRAGON SLAVE!


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