A quick look at the dictionary shows me the word innovative as "Marked by or given to innovations" and a look at the root word innovation is 1. The act of introducing something new. 2. Something newly introduced.
Simply put new and innovative ARE the same thing. This is a simple logic argument, if all things newly introduced are innovative. And as you stated earlier "Dogs and Ware are new" this must make them innovative. This is simple logic.
Webster's Dictionary:
in-no-vate 1: to introduce as or as if new, 2: to make changes
See I can look up words, too.
One definition does show that innovative can be seen as new, but the second definition also says that it can mean change. So simple logic you say? Words are a funny thing, you see. Written word and spoken word can be interpreted as two different things sometimes.
In every day life, when you speak and use common words, do you always mean them to have an exact definition? So if we apply this exact definition, every single thing that ever comes out is considered innovative. New CDs by bands, whose music remains the same, are innovative simply because they are new when infact the band is still using the same style of music.
Definitions are definitions if you want to remain logical in a black and white world. Science and Math are black and white, right or wrong. In the world we live in, words are used daily and applied with new conotations every day.
If we lived by the rule that every word had a set definition, common phraes like "Cool" or "Wicked" would mean the exact opposite of the way we all use them.
If you want to start a debate on the use of words, bring it. I've been training myself as a writer for ten years now, in addition to my more refined debate writing from my academic years. I live almost every minute of my life examing the use of words in all their aptitudes. I may not be the best of spellers at times
, but I am quite adept at using the English language.
What fact have you introduced to the argument besides your own personal opinion or personal opinions of those you know? How are is the personal opinion of for example the many professional reviewers who handled Mario Sunshine less valid than your friends?
So, by your definintion, experience means nothing unless you are a professional.
So...what makes these people professionals in being able to review and proclaim games successful? Numbers as evidence aside, (which are once more subjective because people can buy mass numbers of a product and then not like it) what makes them different from everyone else that are playing these games??
Because some magazine is paying them? Yeah, you could apply that as a "definition" of professional, but that still does not make them any different from everyone else who plays these games. So no, they are not less valid, but they are not more valid by any means in this virtual world. Which makes them just as reliable, or unreliable as the next person.
It seems that you are again failing to grasp that there is more than what the bottom line tells you. My personal saying, Free your mind and let your dreams fly, means just that. Open up and start realizing that not everyone is going to conform to something just because it is "critically acclaimed". If I fee a game is hokey, with lack luster game control, a premise that feels like it was designed by a hippy, and an overall feeling of going nowhere...well I am going to say it, and people may...shocker...just agree with me.
The virtual boy was innovative. I never said that Innovation is always successful or even a good thing. But it is good to try something new and it's something Nintendo should be given credit for. I'm not arguing that everything Nintendo has ever done is good for the company and a great thing. I am not a Nintendo Fan Boy, I don't defend everything they do and have ever done to the death, but I stand by the fact they they do produce innovative gamess contrary to your earlier statements.
True, it's good to keep trying things, but in the end there comes a point when you are tapped out and you just end up looking foolish. Nintendo is about two sticks and a glop of chewing gum from being there. Not EVERYTHING is innovative in the literal sense, which you seem to be so fond of in all circumstances.
I invite you to step into the grey area. It can be scarey at first, but in the end your mind just might expand.
I'm not disregarding all of what you're saying, a lot of your comments are fine. But things that I disagree with are regards to the quality of their product and innovation. Everyone is entitled to personal opinion, but when a majority of knowledagble gamers disagree with that opinion (for example using Mario Sunshine as an example) and you fail to show any constructive criticism regarding why the critically acclaimmed title is a "crapfest" the looming persona of your being a "aging gamer who only wants Nintendo to appeal to his 18-30 demographic" certainly manifests itself through the way you phrase things. If you want to give constructive criticism great, but just saying something is a "crapfest" or whatever else without explaining why so it can be further discected leads to running around in circles.
Majority of knowledgable gamers.
Hmm.
Do you know all these people? Can you write their names down for me? Because I would really like to talk to them and find out what makes them more knowledgable than me or the next guy who's played games for twenty or so years. I mean, I'm asking, because it seems you have a detailed, fact based answer for everything.
But, I'm just an 18-30 aging gamer, who wants Nintendo's sole attention, who isn't a professional, or part of the majority of knowledgable gamers, so apparently my opinion really doesn't weigh as much as theirs. So, my dislike for Mario Sunshine doesn't count.
Is that about right? Have I defined myself well enough? Should we put this in a dictionary so that it can be literal til the end of the written word?
If anyone is having trouble taking constructive criticism, it seems to be you. I've admited when I was wrong on multiple occasions, and made addendums to further my points when necessary to avoid being wrong, but you have yet to truly awknowledge that there is an opinion and point of view outside the conventional, literal world you inhabit. Can you accept that there are in fact legeons of people who would not think Mario Sunshine is good and see it as a crapfest of waterguns and sewage cleaning?
I've opened my mind and accepted some of what you've said, but for all your facts your own position is still as subjective as mine.
So, do you really want to keep insulting me? Because if that's all you can do now, okay.
This aging gamer is getting too old to run the circles you keep dragging this discussion into. I may be the only person here defending this point of view, but I am not alone in this world, and I am not just refering to my "inner circle of friends." We live in a big world, and a much bigger world than ever before thanks to the internet. I find it hard to believe that you can actually lable majorities and minorities as easily as you do.
I don't claim that my opinion is of a majority or minority of people that I've never met or talked to, but you seem to be able to do that just fine. All I say is that there are a lot of people who feel the same way I do, and the exact opposite of what you believe. I know plenty of people feel differently than I, and I am not out to change their minds. I simply feel it's my right to say my piece on this public forum, and that it DOES count for something because I've played games for so many years.
Some might have run or quite this discussion a while back, but ask some of the vets around here, and you'll find out I don't run from anything. Normally I like to play the hero, but it's pretty clear in this case I am the villain of this game.
I'm cool with that. It's fun being the badguy once in a while. Means I don't have to play by the rules.
I'm not out to change your mind, dude, or prove you wrong. My purpose in continuing this thread now is to show that your way is not the only way. Debates are not about right or wrong, or making someone submit to your point of view. It's all about enlightenment, expressing the different views. Opening minds to the possibilities that there is more than one option out there.
So no one here has agreed with me yet. That's fine, but at least they're listening and accepting. I know I'm not alone, and that's good enough for me.
But you are free to believe what you want. I'm not here to tell you any different.
Oh man....I forgot about my steak and it got cold while I was writing this
