Shin Otaku III wrote:Jenner wrote:EVERYTHING SUCKS AND YOU WILL ALL DIE ALONE.
I love you. Marry me.
Way to make me come in here thinking someone contributed to the discussion.
Shin Otaku III wrote:Jenner wrote:EVERYTHING SUCKS AND YOU WILL ALL DIE ALONE.
I love you. Marry me.
She is calling you out. And yes, your privilege is showing. Most of the attitudes you've expressed in this thread (justifying generalizations, equating perceived racism towards whites with actual racism towards minorities, and so on) all demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of what racism really is. The comparison between someone suffering from a splinter versus someone suffering from three broken limbs is still valid.Aaron wrote:I'm the only one offering counter arguments. Everyone else is agreeing with each other. Please don't beat around the bush. Just call me out.
How dare you assume that some racism is worse then others. It's all equally bad. Does that mean you would be fine with people looking down on you as long as your treated the same way economically?
More accurately, you're agreeing with me. Up until now, you haven't mentioned anything about "positive racism". But given the remainder of your response, you still don't understand my point. That is, perceived "positive racism" nearly always falls into a larger, very negative stereotype.Aaron wrote:So basically, it doesn't exist because it's really just racism? So you do agree with me? I think I just heard some angels singing. I think some light from heaven just shot down and parted these cloudy ash filled skies.
That's also a misunderstanding of what affirmative action is supposed to be. AA is not supposed to be about quotas and percentages. While some places do apply AA through quotas, it's a misapplication of it (and many universities that have done so have come under legal fire for that reason). What AA is, and how it's normally applied (particularly in company hiring practices in accordance with EEOC guidelines), is a system of checks to make sure that there is no discrimination in the hiring process.Aaron wrote:Quantifying people into numbers and percentages is racist because you take in no other factors except ethnicity/skin color into account. That's racist. That is exactly what Affirmative Action does. Go figure.
Ethnocentrism is a more specific form of racism. Race itself is an ascribed concept; you're treated as the race that other people perceive you as--it doesn't matter what ethnicity you actually are, as you can still be the target of racism (which is why I can be the target of racism leveled against Arabs, even though I'm not Arab). You're trying to split hairs where it's completely irrelevant.Aaron wrote:Lets just be clear about the term "racism" while we all know what it means. I don't agree with it's definition. It strives to separate people into different species. I don't agree that it should be called racism. The term racism itself distances your skin color from another skin color by leveling it. In reality we're talking about ethnocentrism.
The idea that stereotypes are based on facts is one of the most powerful ones that serves to justify racism and bigotry in general.Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I'm just saying...even though everyone can't fit the bill of a stereotype, many do. They start for a reason. Have you ever heard anyone refer to an Asian person as a "beaner"?
That was the main reason I really liked that movie. KFWerefrog wrote:You know... the movie Harold and Kumar was actually pretty good at showing the harmful effects of the model minority stereotype.
Who's saying we're all the same? What I and many others are saying is that it's invalid to make judgments about people based on race.Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:Some are based on fear, but many make sense even though it's morally wrong to do. Segregating things into labels is natural and is done to keep this simple in your mind.
I'm sick of people saying that we're all the same. If we were all the same, nobody would bother to travel and there would be only one culture. We're simply all equal in worth.
This doesn't work because (a) racists usually swear up and down that they aren't racist, and (b) racists generally have a justification for believing what they do. As a result, you have a lot of people exhibiting racism without admitting to it; those are the sort of people who don't go away by simply ignoring them, and they're also the kind who are more likely to be unnoticed by people in whatever "dominant" group you have.Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:People need to stop whining about racism. You can't change people and the way they like to think. Just write them off as ignorant and unworthy of your attention and then associate with people who aren't racist.
as you wish. but you should know that you, specifically, aren't the only one i'm addressing. i don't know you, specifically. you, specifically,are just some bigot on the internet. like millions of others. i'm chiefly addressing BG, because i actually kinda like him, and am somewhat disappointed in the arguments he's making here. but, you seem to want me to argue with you, specifically, despite you, specifically, making it abundantly clear there's very little point.Aaron wrote:I'm the only one offering counter arguments. Everyone else is agreeing with each other. Please don't beat around the bush. Just call me out.
oh, indignation. is that supposed to inspire guilt? frankly, it's on old trick everyone's seen.Aaron wrote:How dare you
it would be a jolly good start. people are going to think how they think regardless. affirmative action isn't good because it ensures some lucky minority gets more money than he otherwise would (although that helps)--it's good because it makes sure the races intermingle. racism, sexism, agism, most isms are torn down by familiarity. people need to interact and talk to each other in order to understand one another. additionally, i've never actually seen someone discriminated against because they're a "wasp." but i have had a jerk (should i name drop? it's a former member of this board) use that word when he decided the only reason i decided to date a guy that wasn't him was because he was a wasp and the other guy was latino.Aaron wrote:assume that some racism is worse then others. It's all equally bad. Does that mean you would be fine with people looking down on you as long as your treated the same way economically?
you don't say. i'm shocked. it's not like there's a million other positive depictions of white folk in the media, no sir. those poor whites, always always portrayed as slave-driving, wine-sipping, parlour-using rich folks.Aaron wrote:Negative comments about a race generally give rise to negative action against a race.
Aaron wrote:My privilege in what? That I grew up in a latino ghetto?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.Aaron wrote:That I make less money then you?
Aaron wrote:That I am struggling to work my way through college?
now, see, i'd like to stress again that i was mainly taking to BG before, as i have known him to be intelligent, and to listen to reason on occasion. but, you did require that i address you, specifically. i hope you, specifically, are satisfied.Aaron wrote:That I'm passed up on jobs with no skill because I lack a certain skin color? Open your eyes. Please.
Now that my rant is over...back on topic...
Okay! ^o^Shin Otaku III wrote:Jenner wrote:EVERYTHING SUCKS AND YOU WILL ALL DIE ALONE.
I love you. Marry me.
-Sigh- Nobody understands our love.Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:Shin Otaku III wrote:Jenner wrote:EVERYTHING SUCKS AND YOU WILL ALL DIE ALONE.
I love you. Marry me.
Way to make me come in here thinking someone contributed to the discussion.
Goddamnit, I was sure that would distract him.Kizyr wrote:Any Post he's made in this thread that precedes me posting that picture of Jennifer Connolly on a dime-store pony.
No, you've already shown that one to me once.Jenner wrote:Goddamnit, I was sure that would distract him.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE AGREEING TO.Shin Otaku III wrote:I love you. Marry me.Jenner wrote:EVERYTHING SUCKS AND YOU WILL ALL DIE ALONE.
Bugger, hush you.Kizyr wrote:Reasons for weirdness in Japanese porn have a lot of causes, none of which are relevant to this thread.
You make generalizations about people based on race. When you're called out on it, you then proceed to justify those generalizations. That fits very neatly into the definition of racism. Now, if you tried to say that you didn't buy into those generalizations, you might have an argument; but your primary response to someone pointing out your own racist behavior is to justify it even further. (And honestly, two pages ago I would've still given you the benefit of the doubt.)
Most people aren't racist; only a small fraction of the people I encounter on a regular basis I'd describe as clearly bigoted. But I've run into enough folks along those lines to where such behavior is pretty easily identifiable.
Also, it's not so black-and-white. Some folks harbor some minor racist tendencies, some against only particular races or groups, and for some it's just subconscious to where they try to correct for it if it comes out into the open.
No, you've already shown that one to me once.Jenner wrote:Goddamnit, I was sure that would distract him.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE AGREEING TO.Shin Otaku III wrote:I love you. Marry me.Jenner wrote:EVERYTHING SUCKS AND YOU WILL ALL DIE ALONE.
STOP NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. KF
I honestly think the best way to defeat racism is to approach it logically and scientifically. Cold hard facts, based entirely on merit of the person. The color of someone's skin doesn't make them any better/worse than anyone. Only their knowledge and skill levels set them apart.Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:Well porn is supposed to be impressive so you'd think they'd turn down the small guys that came in. Instead they try to make it interesting with things like scat and bukkake. It's ridiculous and pretty messed up.
I gotta ask. How many people of how many races have you met that you didn't label as racist? You've got so many ways to link it in. You've got racism down to a science like Alunissage does with sexism.
and, going back to my point regarding the above statement. Read this article:Aaron wrote:Does that mean you would be fine with people looking down on you as long as your treated the same way economically?
Actually, no. They specifically use language that describe comparing rates among different groups, and not gross numbers ("a violation rate nearly triple that for whites"). If they were talking about the gross number of violations, or the rate of one group's violations to the other (as opposed to "rate of group x is triple that of the rate of group y"), then you would be right, and it wouldn't be a very useful study. However, the way they talk about rate, the definition of it accounts for differences in the number of each population. (To carry out your example, if 5/10 blacks are shorted wages, and 1/4 whites are shorted wages, then the rate of blacks being shorted wages is double that of whites.)Ruby wrote:After reading this article, and it is an interesting article which confirmed something I already knew, I'd like to point out that the statement quoted isn't too useful because when you read it, they could be talking about the actual number of violations of minorities compared to white people and not a ratio or percentage.
B_G wrote:Asian men typically have small penises. (I watch a lot of Asian porn so yeah.)
You know why else it's funny? Because every time I see mention of the destructive nature of porn in terms of totally unrealistic expectations, some self-righteous male claims that that's ridiculous because of course he knows the difference between fantasy and reality and would never, ever let what he sees in porn shape his expectations of women and y'all are being just so oversensitive, you silly hysterical females. I fully expect that B_G has made that argument himself, possibly on this very board. And yet, here he is claiming that porn is so accurate a reflection of reality that it's sufficient to base stereotypes on.Kizyr wrote: basing your racial stereotypes of Asians off of Asian porn is so ridiculous it's funny
Kizyr's already addressed this, but really, you nitwit, didn't you read the whole sentence? The last item in Kiz's list was "anyone in the dominant demographic", which is the point.Aaron wrote:Just say WASP cause that certainly doesn't have a negative connotation.Kizyr wrote:whites/males/Christians/anyone
This really reminds me of the aggrieved tone one hears from men who have just had their casual, unthinking sexism pointed out and criticized, their comfortable views challenged. (What? Isn't it my right to decide what the sexual availability of every woman is based on what she's wearing and talk to and about her accordingly at the level of (c)rudeness I choose, without regard for any other factor including whether she considers that harassment? Isn't it perfectly reasonable to dismiss what she said because, not being a man, she can't really understand the way the world works?) While I obviously was not there when the instances you refer to occurred, it does not seem unlikely to me that you would perceive a lack of the extra attention usually accorded to white males as being treating others better than you, rather than you being treated the same as others are treated.Aaron wrote:I was thinking about this and I realized how some people (any ethnicity) look at people and have compassion for them simply because they are a skin color. Such as a white person being overly attentive to a black customer, as opposed to normal attention given to any other customer. Or how some people think that Latinos deserve better because they work harder then any other ethnicity.
yeloson wrote:Winning the war against equality!
No matter what, your objective is to be able to maintain these three beliefs at the end of any exchange:
1) I'm not racist.
2) I didn't do anything wrong.
3) I don't have to change at all.
If you can hold on to that, then you win!
Tactical options:
A. It's not that serious
1. We didn't know better (and we never will)
2. You're too sensitive
3. It's not a big deal because it's just (a movie, a song, a book, words, etc.)
4. Why should we care? (You don't matter anyway)
5. We didn't mean any harm (But we'll do it again)
6. I was drunk on klanschlager/high on nazi-X/taking Xanax
B. But!
1. POC do XYZ to themselves (so it's ok that we also do XYZ)
2. I'm oppressed too!
3. Hey! Look at sexism/classicism/Global Warming! Diversion
4. One POC says it's cool
5. POC can discriminate too!
6. What about reverse racism?
7. We're not discriminating AS MUCH (as other people/as we used to), isn't that good?!? Give me a cookie.
8. My best friend/spouse/adopted child/my ancestor 5 generations back is POC
9. I've done XYZ, which proves I'm not racist, and I get a free pass for anything else I do.
C. Dismissal!
1. You're oppressing me by making me be "PC"
2. You're too stupid to be in this conversation and everything you say doesn't matter
3. Racism is over now
4. If we don't talk about it, it'll magically go away
5. Under my definition- it's not racist
6. You're too angry/You're being irrational
7. Racism has always existed, we can't fix it, you should stop complaining.
D. Threats
1. Be glad it isn't worse, we could be doing XYZ/I'll give you a reason to cry
2. You brought this on yourself/ If you people didn't... XYZ
3. Go back to where you came from!
Kizyr wrote:YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE AGREEING TO.
STOP NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. KF
^This <33Jenner wrote:-Sigh- Nobody understands our love.
I'm terribly sorry B_G. Unfortunately, I would have nothing to add to the topic, because all that needs to be said has been established in detail by Sonic#, Alunissage, and Kizyr. Here, I'll go ahead and summarize this:Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:Way to make me come in here thinking someone contributed to the discussion.
Government for a serious answer. This is true at least to some extent. We need laws to prohibit workplace discrimination. We need laws against hate crimes. We need federally funded programs in school which are designed to teach students that sexism and racism are wrong (and how to evaluate and change their attitudes) and teachers who make an honest attempt to punish sexual harassment in school (no more, "boys will be boys." When they sneak into a locker room).meg wrote:government.
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