Neighbor indicted over MySpace suicide girl

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... 8103.story

Yeah so this is pretty stupid. The girl killed herself. It's tragic and immature, but nothing criminal. Trolling isn't a crime.

[Sonic#]

Messing with someone's head is terrible! Messing with a youth's head is especially terrible. I see no reason why it shouldn't be a crime, since there were ignoble intentions and bad consequences.

[Guild_Premier_Ghaleon]

Eh, I have mixed views with this. I believe that if someone's son or daughter has been diagnosed with depression, their internet time should be monitored, because there are a lot of wicked people eager to hurt others. I also have a very stubborn perspective with suicide. I think of it as being very cowardice, and have gotten into numerous arguements with others about this. They try to say there are alot of variables that come into play, and at times there should be an understanding of the situation, but I have never encountered a case where I've agreed with this. Despite this however, the fact that it was an angry mother harassing the little girl is dumb founding. While I wouldn't agree, I could certainly see a normal internet troller doing something like this, but such a malicious act by some woman? Bah, I dunno. Kind of mixed views that prevent me from giving a definite answer. =\

[phyco126]

When I read this a few days ago, I said to myself "FINALLY!" However, how would one go about bringing justice? The mother set up the page and created the fictional boy, but it was her daughter that did the things that led to the girls suicide.

While this woman should be punished, I can't help but feel sorry for her. Jail may be too harsh, and I can't help but feel that it wouldn't accomplish anything. Perhaps she should just be sent to a mental institution for about 6 months and be forced to be around those who suffere depression. Or community service for 2 years. Either or.

[Alunissage]

I also have a very stubborn perspective with suicide. I think of it as being very cowardice, and have gotten into numerous arguements with others about this. They try to say there are alot of variables that come into play, and at times there should be an understanding of the situation, but I have never encountered a case where I've agreed with this.

Just curious, has anyone of your acquaintance attempted suicide, with or without success?

I have two reactions to "Trolling isn't a crime":

1) This is laughable coming from the source it does, for obvious reasons.

2) Deceit with intent to injure is criminal in other contexts; why not this one?

[Guild_Premier_Ghaleon]

I also have a very stubborn perspective with suicide. I think of it as being very cowardice, and have gotten into numerous arguements with others about this. They try to say there are alot of variables that come into play, and at times there should be an understanding of the situation, but I have never encountered a case where I've agreed with this.

Just curious, has anyone of your acquaintance attempted suicide, with or without success?

I have, a very close friend of mine hanged himself. Was very unexpected, he always seemed like the most cheerful person in the world, and then one night, bam. It happened. Despite our friendship however, I still thought of it as cowardice. I perceive it as being selfish. If you don't want to live for yourself, at least live for those around you. Think about how much your family and friends would mourn, do you really want to pass on that much anguish? Meh, just my own opinion on the matter.

[Sonic#]

Assuming someone is able to think coherently before they kill themselves, they must think that their pain must trump the suffering that others will have. Maybe they underestimate others' mourning. Maybe they don't, and they're still right in their evaluation. It's impossible to know for certain.

G_P_G, you would have them live to maintain an illusion of happiness for the sake of their family and friends, for the sake of the society around them. ("How dare they don't live for you" sounds like a different kind of selfishness.) When they reject maintaining such an illusion (which is a heavy burden), and their other problems are unresolvable or incurable, in actuality or perceptively, there isn't much choice for them. Maybe they'll have the good sense to seek help, to find additional reasons for living. I hope they do. But sometimes they don't.

To kill yourself may be a failure, but is it cowardice? Is it disgraceful failure? You call them a coward because living is the only decent choice for you. It is also the difficult one, at least when life sucks. However, I can't bring myself to call others cowards. I can't belittle their suffering in such a way, or their perception of it. (To be not brave is not to be a coward, and maybe they have been brave for a long time.) I don't know how tough it was. Calling them a coward is too simple, and prevents me from understanding, even in the limited extent that I can, who they were, and why such deaths happen. It prevents us from preventing further suicides, whether they be others', or our own.

If I already think I'm a coward, then there's nothing that prevents me from doing an act that is one further cowardice. I have to know why it's terrible without attributing a blame that is biased against me further.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

Being mean on the internet isn't a crime. This is obviously a case of the media being so outraged that they don't care how they get her into trouble. Whatever happened to crying and eating a lot?

I'm fed the hell up with this country. Half of us jump at any opportunity to sue people and people get in trouble for stupid things so the country can "feel better" when they won't be thinking about it a week or two later.

"Woman jailed via the Digg Effect!"

[exigence]

This is just my oppinion but I think that anyone who commits suicide over such a mild affair deserves to have lost the right to live. I'm almost glad she killed herself its really better for the human race now that she can't pollute the gene poll with her stupidity. the woman being put on trial should be given the key to the city.

[GhaleonOne]

This is just my oppinion but I think that anyone who commits suicide over such a mild affair deserves to have lost the right to live. I'm almost glad she killed herself its really better for the human race now that she can't pollute the gene poll with her stupidity. the woman being put on trial should be given the key to the city.

... wow.

[Kizyr]

This is just my oppinion but I think that anyone who commits suicide over such a mild affair deserves to have lost the right to live. I'm almost glad she killed herself its really better for the human race now that she can't pollute the gene poll with her stupidity.

I think the same thing about people who can't spell nor use punctuation right. KF

[Guild_Premier_Ghaleon]

Assuming someone is able to think coherently before they kill themselves, they must think that their pain must trump the suffering that others will have. Maybe they underestimate others' mourning. Maybe they don't, and they're still right in their evaluation. It's impossible to know for certain.

G_P_G, you would have them live to maintain an illusion of happiness for the sake of their family and friends, for the sake of the society around them. ("How dare they don't live for you" sounds like a different kind of selfishness.) When they reject maintaining such an illusion (which is a heavy burden), and their other problems are unresolvable or incurable, in actuality or perceptively, there isn't much choice for them. Maybe they'll have the good sense to seek help, to find additional reasons for living. I hope they do. But sometimes they don't.

To kill yourself may be a failure, but is it cowardice? Is it disgraceful failure? You call them a coward because living is the only decent choice for you. It is also the difficult one, at least when life sucks. However, I can't bring myself to call others cowards. I can't belittle their suffering in such a way, or their perception of it. (To be not brave is not to be a coward, and maybe they have been brave for a long time.) I don't know how tough it was. Calling them a coward is too simple, and prevents me from understanding, even in the limited extent that I can, who they were, and why such deaths happen. It prevents us from preventing further suicides, whether they be others', or our own.

If I already think I'm a coward, then there's nothing that prevents me from doing an act that is one further cowardice. I have to know why it's terrible without attributing a blame that is biased against me further.

Well, with all honesty, I find truth in this. It's likely that my emotions are the way they are because I have experienced what I have, and I'm simply angry because I've been hurt. But that's another point justifying my opinion. I can honestly think of no situation that would be worth killing yourself. And sure, it may be selfish of me to ask someone to live for the sake of others, but the fact is, while they have stopped their own suffering, they have forced so much more grief on to so many other people. I have been very fortunate in life. I have an excellent family, amazing friends, and overall I'm a very happy person. But that particular wound has never healed, and I don't imagine it ever will. Sure, whatever he was trying to run from was resolved for him, but he has projected infinite anguish upon a vast magnitude of other people he was connected to in life. I don't think my selfishness is unreasonable...

This is just my oppinion but I think that anyone who commits suicide over such a mild affair deserves to have lost the right to live. I'm almost glad she killed herself its really better for the human race now that she can't pollute the gene poll with her stupidity. the woman being put on trial should be given the key to the city.

Alright, now while I strongly disagree with the action taken, this is just ridiculous. You have to take into consideration the different variables that come into play with the particular case. The girl was mentally unstable, she was diagnosed with depression, and despite this, this woman thought it was a good idea to attack the poor girl. While I may perceive her means of escape as being cowardly, I feel for her. I've worked in a group home for a little over a year where I mediate over the mentally unstable, and so I've seen the effects mental disorders have on people. To say something so incredibly ignorant without knowing, or without wanting to know for that matter, anything about ones state of mind is insulting to everyone who takes interest in the incident.

[Alunissage]

I'm not sure there's any such thing as "a mild affair" when you're thirteen. It's practically the definition of the age that even slight adjustments in peer relationships are overwhelmingly important, let alone something like this. Add in a tendency to depression, and it's no surprise that her reaction was strong, to put it mildly.

The 20-year reunion of my junior high (specifically, of the roughly 40 of us in my year in the Individualized Honors program there) is next month, and various memories from those three years are resurfacing as I see references in the organizational emails and such to things from that time. Even having been fortunate enough to not have experienced cruelty on this scale, I have no trouble seeing how something like this would be devastating.

I know I put this better the first time I said it, but I don't have the material to quote myself handy: "If you can't imagine what it would be like to be in such pain, physical and/or emotional, as to make life truly not worth living even for the sake of your loved ones, you're either sheltered, unimaginative, or extremely lucky." Now I would add "ignorant", regarding clinical depression. The first person I knew who attempted suicide found out later that there was a family history of depression of which he was unaware. Every patient who visits the psychiatric department at the local health center for any reason has to fill out a questionnaire with at least three items relating to frequency of thoughts of suicide. Depression is not a myth, or a lack of willpower, etc. It is a real condition with real symptoms -- and the ultimate symptom is suicide.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

This is just my oppinion but I think that anyone who commits suicide over such a mild affair deserves to have lost the right to live. I'm almost glad she killed herself its really better for the human race now that she can't pollute the gene poll with her stupidity. the woman being put on trial should be given the key to the city.

Did you notice how transparent the whole thing was? "I've heard about the way you treat your friends" ...heh. I'll PM you my parodies of Heart - Crazy On You and Foreigner - Jukebox Hero when i'm done with them.

This is just my oppinion but I think that anyone who commits suicide over such a mild affair deserves to have lost the right to live. I'm almost glad she killed herself its really better for the human race now that she can't pollute the gene poll with her stupidity.

I think the same thing about people who can't spell nor use punctuation right. KF

What about people that sign their posts as if people don't already know who said it?



Morally, there are a ton of terrible things that should happen to Lori Drew. Legally, i believe there should be little if ANYTHING done.

[phyco126]

This is just my oppinion but I think that anyone who commits suicide over such a mild affair deserves to have lost the right to live. I'm almost glad she killed herself its really better for the human race now that she can't pollute the gene poll with her stupidity. the woman being put on trial should be given the key to the city.

And that makes you any better? I'm more afraid of someone who carries this kind of attitude polluting the gene pool than a girl who kills herself.

I fail to see how killing one self is cowardly. Last I checked, some cultures found great honor in those who took their own lives willingly instead of fighting against them.

Think about it for a moment, as Sonic# said, how are we not selfish for demanding they continue living in pain and suffering because we want to be able to be around them? Suicide is a release from the intense pain one has felt. Sometimes suicide makes no sense, but to the person who did it, suicide makes more sense than everything they where put through.

Cowardly though, I can't stand that word describing suicidals. Since when was death cowardly? Death = pain, hanging doesn't generally kill you instantly. Over dosing can cause enormous pain, depending on the medications used, before death can set in. A gun-shot to the head may seem easy and quick enough, yet who are we to say they don't feel a great deal of pain? No, I think it takes a lot of courage to settle with death.

When faced with death, one is usually afraid of it. One takes a great deal of time to avoid it. It scares them. Have someone put a gun to your head, who is more cowardly? The person who ends up with a bullet in their head trying to defend their family or whatever it is that they tried to fight for, or the person who peed themselves and begged for mercy, shaking uncontrollably and sobbing like a baby?

Add to the point of what Alunnisage said. Depression is a actual condition, one that cannot be explained. How the hell do you know what it's like? Sure, maybe you have been depressed. Maybe you lost your house, your wife, your kids. Perhaps God told you to kill yourself. But how do YOU know how THEY feel? Do you have their brain? Can you even comprehend how much pain and fear they feel? No, I think not. Our brains are wired differently, and sometimes the suicidal thought can only be treated by medication. Something in the brain is wrong, and is causing these thoughts to become a very real issue with the suicidal person.

[Guild_Premier_Ghaleon]

I fail to see how killing one self is cowardly. Last I checked, some cultures found great honor in those who took their own lives willingly instead of fighting against them.

Well, I find a huge difference in those who kill themselves to be relieved of pain and those who kill themselves to die with honor. For samurai, seppuku was a ritualistic suicide that was allowed to them so they could die with minimal shame. This was used when the situation demanded it, such as; preventing enemy capture, appealing to ones liege lord, etc.

Think about it for a moment, as Sonic# said, how are we not selfish for demanding they continue living in pain and suffering because we want to be able to be around them? Suicide is a release from the intense pain one has felt. Sometimes suicide makes no sense, but to the person who did it, suicide makes more sense than everything they where put through.

I agree entirely I'm being selfish in my demands, but I don't see how my selfishness is unreasonable. In my particular case, my friend hanged himself without warning. This means, whatever issues he was having, he made no attempt to fix them by speaking with his family or peers. If he would have, I imagine something could have been done to help him cope with whatever pain he was feeling. There's certainly no guarantee, but with all honesty, while it still would have hurt, I imagine it would have hurt a whole lot loss if he had resorted to suicide after visiting every available option. Again, it's very likely I feel this way because of the experience I've had. I was devastated when I lost a close friend, and was horrified with myself for feeling more anger than grief, both towards him and myself. But, after that, I perceive most if not all cases the same way. I imagine theres always action to be taken before someone turns to suicide.

Cowardly though, I can't stand that word describing suicidals. Since when was death cowardly? Death = pain, hanging doesn't generally kill you instantly. Over dosing can cause enormous pain, depending on the medications used, before death can set in. A gun-shot to the head may seem easy and quick enough, yet who are we to say they don't feel a great deal of pain? No, I think it takes a lot of courage to settle with death.

I disagree with this entirely. Sure, there may be pain briefly, but in the end suicide is used as a means to escape from pain. They aren't doing it to amplify it, they are using it to end their lives because they feel it isn't worth living anymore. That's why I describe this as being cowardly. They run away from their problems instead of working to resolve whatever problem it is they are facing.

When faced with death, one is usually afraid of it. One takes a great deal of time to avoid it. It scares them. Have someone put a gun to your head, who is more cowardly? The person who ends up with a bullet in their head trying to defend their family or whatever it is that they tried to fight for, or the person who peed themselves and begged for mercy, shaking uncontrollably and sobbing like a baby?

Alright, but these are two completely different issues. If this young girl had died for the sake of her family instead of giving them a great burden I would find her admirable. But she didn't. She didn't kill herself so her family could live, she did it because she couldn't take the pain that was inflicted to her. Now, she was suffering from depression, and a majority of the clients in my place of work have mild to major cases of depression, so I can't call this girl a coward. But if anything, being aware of her problems, her parents should have watched and mediated over her internet time as well as other situations that she may have been vulnerable towards.

Add to the point of what Alunnisage said. Depression is a actual condition, one that cannot be explained. How the hell do you know what it's like? Sure, maybe you have been depressed. Maybe you lost your house, your wife, your kids. Perhaps God told you to kill yourself. But how do YOU know how THEY feel? Do you have their brain? Can you even comprehend how much pain and fear they feel? No, I think not. Our brains are wired differently, and sometimes the suicidal thought can only be treated by medication. Something in the brain is wrong, and is causing these thoughts to become a very real issue with the suicidal person.

I agree with you here. I work with people who suffer from depression daily, and alot of the things they do make no sense to me. Alot of behavioral issues are just baffling to me, and I get frustrated when someone gets angry for what I think is a silly issue or refuses their medication, or whatever. But, I try to remember, they have a mental disorder and can't really help it.

[phyco126]

You can disagree with the death part all you want, but death is still death regardless of the mask it wears.

[Guild_Premier_Ghaleon]

Oh, I know, and I'm in no way saying you're wrong. It's just my own personal experiences with suicide have molded my perceptions into what they are. I just don't agree with it is all.

[Sadrin]

I think the woman should get time in jail. She knew that what she was doing was wrong. What if she gave the kid drugs and the girl died? I just don't understand why an adult would even do something like that.

[exigence]

Mentally stable or not it's no excuse. besides no use crying over spilled milk, especially if its allready spoiled. Im supposed to feel remorse because she killed her self due to internet bullying. havent any of you been bullied on the internet? Even right now I'm getting getting crap because I hold the dissenting opinion I havent killed myself because of it.