Lunar Threads

Today has not been a good day. Oh, it started alright, went to work, nothing unusual. Before I went on lunch, I decided to check my bank account like I always do, just to make sure nothing is wrong.

Today, something was wrong. $400 wrong.

See, someone hacked into my iTunes account and took out $400 in 8 $50.00 transactions. They just posted to my account today 11/17. In a panic, I printed the sheet and took it to my manager, asking if I could leave early to take care of it (thankfully I had already finished my day 3 expenses and a few of my co-worker's expenses as well). He let me go, and I went home to first check with Apple to make sure they 1) cancel my account with iTunes and 2) if I was going to get the money back from them or the bank.

Long story short, I had to go to the bank and file Unauthorized Transactions paperwork and cancel my card. The bank will be giving me a provisional credit for the missing money in the next 10 days so I feel a little better. But this whole thing just kinda shook me up ya know? Account fraud is that thing that always happens to other people.

Until it happens to you, that is.

If you're getting the money back, look on the bright side. Ironically, although I tell you to remain optimistic, this is also your calling to the dark side. See what happens when you PAY for files? You've made the first step in canceling iTunes and you know the next step is Frostwire, BT or whatever you like most.

Yeah, I'm glad it turned out alright Sheesh, having that much money missing for me would be the difference between, well, living as I am now or not.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote: See what happens when you PAY for files? You've made the first step in canceling iTunes and you know the next step is Frostwire, BT or whatever you like most.

So he's supposed to go into illegal file sharing because people will take advantage of him when he does it legitimately? Instead of being stolen from, he should instead steal from a third person?

That breaks my mind.

I was honestly thinking the same thing. This is why I don't pay for files, unless I'm directly paying an artist (and even then, I only feel comfortable when it's someone I actually know). I'll buy CDs from artists I like, but I don't pay for MP3s, through iTunes or otherwise. KF

Kizyr wrote:I was honestly thinking the same thing. This is why I don't pay for files, unless I'm directly paying an artist (and even then, I only feel comfortable when it's someone I actually know). I'll buy CDs from artists I like, but I don't pay for MP3s, through iTunes or otherwise. KF

I'm the same way. I've bought a few random songs off iTunes that I've heard over the radio, but 99 times out of a 100 I buy a CD. I like owning a physical copy of something, rather than just a digital copy.

I've only ever bought 3 songs total on iTunes because I didn't want to spend $15 on an entire CD for one song I like.

Considering the alternative now, it may just be worth it.

Nobiyuki77 wrote:I've only ever bought 3 songs total on iTunes because I didn't want to spend $15 on an entire CD for one song I like.

Considering the alternative now, it may just be worth it.

Don't frown. Nobody'll go to bed hungry because you illegally downloaded songs.

Haven't you ever heard of starving musical artists?

Kizyr wrote:I was honestly thinking the same thing. This is why I don't pay for files, unless I'm directly paying an artist (and even then, I only feel comfortable when it's someone I actually know). I'll buy CDs from artists I like, but I don't pay for MP3s, through iTunes or otherwise. KF

Yeah, that's fair. When I do buy music, I normally buy the CD. The exception was with something like when the Mother 3 soundtracks were posted on iTunes.

Sorry to hear that Nobiyuki77 . I don't use iTunes, mostly because they suck. And everytime I log into my computer they keep wanting me to install new iTunes, Safari, and Quicktime. Bleh.

Glad you get it worked out, I hope that you don't have any complications because of all this.

Sonic# wrote:

Kizyr wrote:I was honestly thinking the same thing. This is why I don't pay for files, unless I'm directly paying an artist (and even then, I only feel comfortable when it's someone I actually know). I'll buy CDs from artists I like, but I don't pay for MP3s, through iTunes or otherwise. KF

Yeah, that's fair. When I do buy music, I normally buy the CD. The exception was with something like when the Mother 3 soundtracks were posted on iTunes.

There's also the fact that online music stores have often been rather backwards with technology. They're only now starting to come out of the DMCA restrictions and realizing how bad an idea that was (I'm pretty much in agreement with XKCD #488 here). I mean, really, the only MP3s I trust fall into three categories:
(1) I ripped it myself
(2) I obtained it for free
(3) I paid for it, but trust the artist (so, e.g., if my computer crashes, or I get a new computer, I don't have to re-buy anything). This last option only happens with independents.

It's why I'm never getting an iTunes, Rhapsody, or other account.

Werefrog wrote:Haven't you ever heard of starving musical artists?

Well, buying directly from an artist nets them more profit than going through iTunes. So eschewing most of the major online stores in general could be a good idea. KF

Kizyr wrote:They're only now starting to come out of the DMCA restrictions and realizing how bad an idea that was (I'm pretty much in agreement with XKCD #488 here). I mean, really, the only MP3s I trust fall into three categories:
(1) I ripped it myself
(2) I obtained it for free
(3) I paid for it, but trust the artist (so, e.g., if my computer crashes, or I get a new computer, I don't have to re-buy anything). This last option only happens with independents.

Bingo, Kiz hit it on the spot with me.

Werefrog wrote:Haven't you ever heard of starving musical artists?

An actual starving "musical artist" would be the guy who knows the first 30 seconds of 20 songs on guitar and practices in front of company while driving everyone insane. Those people SHOULD starve.

Kizyr wrote:There's also the fact that online music stores have often been rather backwards with technology. They're only now starting to come out of the DMCA restrictions and realizing how bad an idea that was (I'm pretty much in agreement with XKCD #488 here). I mean, really, the only MP3s I trust fall into three categories:
(1) I ripped it myself
(2) I obtained it for free
(3) I paid for it, but trust the artist (so, e.g., if my computer crashes, or I get a new computer, I don't have to re-buy anything). This last option only happens with independents.

It's why I'm never getting an iTunes, Rhapsody, or other account.

I'd add the Amazon MP3 store to that list. Standard, 256 kbit non-DRMed MP3s, sometimes cheaper than iTunes. Admittedly, if I can get it directly from the artist, I prefer that, but for other stuff Amazon MP3 suits me just fine.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:

Nobiyuki77 wrote:I've only ever bought 3 songs total on iTunes because I didn't want to spend $15 on an entire CD for one song I like.

Considering the alternative now, it may just be worth it.

Don't frown. Nobody'll go to bed hungry because you illegally downloaded songs.

Yeah but they'll have one less ivory backscratcher.

In all seriousness I feel it's only illegal once you get caught. Besides hypothetically speaking, if I were to download music/movies/software illegally and liked it, I'd probably go out and buy it.

Also I often thought about this: If I can't afford something or would otherwise never get it legally, and I turn around and get an illegal copy, no one has really "lost" a sale or money because they wouldn't of gotten my money anyway.

captaindax wrote:In all seriousness I feel it's only illegal once you get caught. Besides hypothetically speaking, if I were to download music/movies/software illegally and liked it, I'd probably go out and buy it.

It's always illegal (to use an extreme example, would murder only be illegal if you get caught?), but there are ethical issues here that may not come into play with other crimes.

Personally, if you download for free and then go out and buy it because you liked it (and used the download as a free trial or because you're too lazy to rip yourself), you're ethically okay in my book. I'd also argue that it's ethically fine to download for free if there is no other realistic method of acquiring the media (out of print stuff, stuff that's really difficult to import, etc.). Now, the law may not agree with you, but illegal doesn't necessarily mean unethical.

Dragonmaster Lou wrote:

captaindax wrote:In all seriousness I feel it's only illegal once you get caught. Besides hypothetically speaking, if I were to download music/movies/software illegally and liked it, I'd probably go out and buy it.

It's always illegal (to use an extreme example, would murder only be illegal if you get caught?), but there are ethical issues here that may not come into play with other crimes.

Personally, if you download for free and then go out and buy it because you liked it (and used the download as a free trial or because you're too lazy to rip yourself), you're ethically okay in my book. I'd also argue that it's ethically fine to download for free if there is no other realistic method of acquiring the media (out of print stuff, stuff that's really difficult to import, etc.). Now, the law may not agree with you, but illegal doesn't necessarily mean unethical.

Sounds good to me. But then again ethics is debatable as well. I'm Nihilistic generally so I really don't think any action is preferable to another in regard to moral value. It's all about perception.

captaindax wrote:Sounds good to me. But then again ethics is debatable as well. I'm Nihilistic generally so I really don't think any action is preferable to another in regard to moral value. It's all about perception.

True. Except for a handful of cases (cold blooded murder, for example), ethics are not black and white and there are a lot of shades of gray in determining whether any particular action is ethical or not.

I laugh at those who sit there and argue to justify their desire to download things. They care about morality, but they care more about the downloads so they come up with long-winded justifications.

Free stuff, guys. You know nobody suffers over it, so who cares? I don't. I know it's technically wrong to do..but c'mon....free stuff.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:

Werefrog wrote:Haven't you ever heard of starving musical artists?

An actual starving "musical artist" would be the guy who knows the first 30 seconds of 20 songs on guitar and practices in front of company while driving everyone insane. Those people SHOULD starve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dyeHESSjQM
It turns into a bizarre skit about half way through, but the first part is great.

Dragonmaster Lou wrote: I'd add the Amazon MP3 store to that list. Standard, 256 kbit non-DRMed MP3s, sometimes cheaper than iTunes. Admittedly, if I can get it directly from the artist, I prefer that, but for other stuff Amazon MP3 suits me just fine.

Yeah, I agree with you completely. I won't buy anything with DRM. Amazon's great because they have a daily deal where you can get an album from anywhere between 2 and 3 dollars. If I see an artist on there that I like or a something that has pretty good reviews and sounds like something I'd like, I'd buy it. I guess my philosophy on MP3s is that I'll buy them for about 25-50 cents a song. I think they're priced too high at the moment.

Also, Kizyr, do you have an information about the amount of money an artist makes from iTunes versus a CD (you sort of mentioned this to an extent.)? I know that the label gets an extremely large proportion either way, but I'm not sure if they make less off iTunes.

I read on BBC that there's going to be a service in England that lets you download all the MP3s (DRM-free) you can for a year for about 100 dollars. I would definitely be interested in that if something similar released here.