ITT: Jenner complains about college.

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Werefrog
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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Werefrog »

Honestly... neither APA nor MLA formatting is that bad. You should just be glad that you don't have to include footnotes or endnotes.

There are two reasons that citation of some sort is required. The most obvious reason is that you need to credit the people whose research you used. Second, some people will perhaps read your paper and find something interesting about a fact or idea that you cited. They can then go to the works cited page at the end and find the paper/book based on your citation.

Really, if your professor didn't explain this to you (and you asked in an appropriate way, at an appropriate), he's a bad teacher.

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by phyco126 »

I'm not even really talking about citations, though if that citation requires a comma and you forgot to insert that coma, that makes you a terrorist plagerist.

I'm talking about spacing, font size, etc... if it didn't mean the exact supposed format, then you where a horrible, horrible person. It never made sense to me. My paper is just as academically correct in Webdings as it is in Times New Roman.
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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Undine »

phyco126 wrote:My paper is just as academically correct in Webdings as it is in Times New Roman.

I have to disagree with you there. The purpose of a paper is to demonstrate your thinking and reasoning. You're not achieving that goal if you're obscuring it in webdings.

When people talk about APA and MLA, they're usually referring to the citation style, and it is a pain, but it is important.

Things like font size and spacing can help a reader follow your point more easily (makes sure that paragraphs aren't crunched / hard to make out, or too far spaced so you don't get a sense of the whole). It's helpful. I'm not even 30 yet, and when my kids write in tricked out curvise fonts, I have trouble making out what they're trying to say.

Once in a while you do get a professor who will threaten to fail you if you don't have the right margins, but think of them as old grumps. It's cute, really.

Jenner's just being a -Borgan-. :P

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Sonic# »

And as far as standardized fonts and citation formats, it's far easier to read thirty essays when everyone is doing things in relatively the same format. Same or similar font, same or similar spacing, same or similar way of marking your sources, and so on. Over that many papers, the little differences will become big. Instead of that occuring, standardization allows me to pay more attention to the quality of the writing and the ideas in it, rather than getting distracted by all of these other things. An honestly, they take two seconds to change, except for the citation style. And really, I'm just hard on people for that so that they compromise and make half an effort to cite the pages and tell me when the book was published.
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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Jenner »

Monde Luna wrote:I see this thread has been aptly renamed. :lol:


Yes, I renamed it :P

Undine wrote:Jenner's just being a -Borgan--bot. :P


>.> ... You're a -Borgan-.
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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Silver Phoenix »

I prefer using clever ways to curse aside from Lunar-related replacements, and you should too.

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Imperial Knight »

Sonic# wrote:And as far as standardized fonts and citation formats, it's far easier to read thirty essays when everyone is doing things in relatively the same format. Same or similar font, same or similar spacing, same or similar way of marking your sources, and so on. Over that many papers, the little differences will become big.


This.

Until you've been an instructor yourself, it can be hard to understand how time consuming grading really is. More to the point, things that ultimately take little effort from students can save the grader significant amounts of time.

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by phyco126 »

Undine wrote:
phyco126 wrote:My paper is just as academically correct in Webdings as it is in Times New Roman.

I have to disagree with you there. The purpose of a paper is to demonstrate your thinking and reasoning. You're not achieving that goal if you're obscuring it in webdings.

When people talk about APA and MLA, they're usually referring to the citation style, and it is a pain, but it is important.

Things like font size and spacing can help a reader follow your point more easily (makes sure that paragraphs aren't crunched / hard to make out, or too far spaced so you don't get a sense of the whole). It's helpful. I'm not even 30 yet, and when my kids write in tricked out curvise fonts, I have trouble making out what they're trying to say.

Once in a while you do get a professor who will threaten to fail you if you don't have the right margins, but think of them as old grumps. It's cute, really.


That line of reasoning is fine and dandy to me, I have no problem with it. I just hate it when the professor cops out and just declares that if it isn't 100% perfect in format, you are a horrible, horrible thief that deserves death. Same with citations - I undertstand why we do them, and I believe that it is aptly enforced. But... where the heck did historian Plato get his freaking information from? That man, in accordance with today's acadamia line of thinking, is nothing but a retarded thief who should be expelled!

It just strikes me as odd. We are supposed to cite our sources to prevent theft of knowledge and to be able to give the reader a chance to do their own research to see if I adaquetly backed up my claim. Yet, what about those who give us the knowledge in the first place? I don't see ANY citations in my history text book. Nor on the history channel. Some books have them, but many more don't. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't take their knowledge any less seriously.

Oh, and all those novels? They don't follow APA/MLA format. Where is J.K. Rowling's proof that Dumbledor dies? I don't see it cited anywhere, she must have just made it up and stole it from someone. Hell, not even my text books follow APA format. I'm burning them tomorrow.

Obviously, my attempt at explaining my feelings aren't going to come across very clear.
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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Undine »

Plato... history text book... historical TV program... books... novels... Harry Potter


You have to consider the purpose for writing. MLA and APA formats are for formal, academic writing. That's different from any of the other types of writing you chose.

The purpose of a history textbook is to get the information across smoothly for students. This is different from academic writing for peers / fellows in the field (which is what you practice when you're doing college papers). However, history textbooks are peer reviewed and put out (ideally) by a reputable publishing house. The information there is able to be corroborated.

"Historical" TV shows rely instead on trotting out experts, and sometimes "experts." If the people the show is relying on are actually reputable, you can bet that they are published and had to use a formal citation style. You can't interrupt a TV show for a lay audience with citations left and right; it doesn't match the medium, audience, or purpose.

Novels / Harry Potter-- not academic writing. The argument doesn't apply. There is no professor and no member of the Modern Language Association who would actually tell you that Harry Potter isn't worth reading because it's not cited (although she does borrow from other works/traditions left and right).

Plato, Shakespeare, etc. existed before MLA / APA, and there's a whole ton of work that people try to do to figure out where credit goes to in that case.


It sounds like you really had a frustrating experience with some professors and classes, and I'm sorry for that.

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Imperial Knight »

Undine wrote:
Imperial Knight wrote:Plato... history text book... historical TV program... books... novels... Harry Potter




Speaking of citations, you really should make sure you list the right person as the one being quoted :mrgreen:

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Undine »

Sorry, I admit that I suck at the quote button thing.

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Imperial Knight »

No worries. I just found it funny given the context of the conversation.

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by phyco126 »

Thanks Undine, I'm glad somebody gave me the time to explain it all. Instead of some professors that just scream out "PLAGUERIZER!!!!!!!!!!!" and point fingers when the indentation is wrong =P
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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Jenner »

I was up until 4AM yesterday studying for a test.
We had a fire drill, and could not finish the test.

WRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Silver Phoenix »

Well maybe you can study even more and retake the test? Otherwise blame it on Republicans!

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Jenner »

Silver Phoenix wrote:Well maybe you can study even more and retake the test? Otherwise blame it on Republicans!



-Fatal Hopper- REPUBLICANS...

I have an Industrial/Organization Psychology test soon!!

>.> I am studying that now... kinda.

I need someone to keep me on task.

What I have learned about I/O! I/O Psychologists are the most miserable psychologists because they are corporate tools.
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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Undine »

Is I/O psychology about like HR and how to keep the workforce happy?

BORING. Make enemies with the Dean and perform some zany pranks, already.

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Silver Phoenix »

One of the worst things about college is no matter how much A+ work you do, some teachers/professors are such a-holes that you never get the A you deserve. You have to go above and beyond and it's still not good enough. Pricks!

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Werefrog »

Undine wrote:BORING. Make enemies with the Dean and perform some zany pranks, already.


Robot House!!!

I/O psychology does sound really awful. Is it a requirement? I debated taking a similar class at college, but I ended up taking the psychology of meditation instead (somewhat accidentally).

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Re: ITT: Jenner -Borgan- about college.

Post by Jenner »

Werefrog wrote:
Undine wrote:BORING. Make enemies with the Dean and perform some zany pranks, already.


Robot House!!!

I/O psychology does sound really awful. Is it a requirement? I debated taking a similar class at college, but I ended up taking the psychology of meditation instead (somewhat accidentally).

Undine wrote:Is I/O psychology about like HR and how to keep the workforce happy?



Remember now, I'm biased... I/O used to be very HR but ever since the recession it's more focused on worker psychology, in specific, capacity. How many jobs can one worker do ans still stay productive in all of them. (Sanity is not considered)

So, not exactly, but every psych course helps me focus my major and decide where to go. More on this later.
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