Goku vs. Superman

Dunkleheit · Post by **Dunkleheit** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:32 am

18 was human before she was an android, which was why she was resurected and 17 wasn't. When she came back, she was human again, thus enabling her to have children.

BraveKing · Post by **BraveKing** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:40 am

So wouldnt that make her a cyborg then

Dunkleheit · Post by **Dunkleheit** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:19 pm

Yes, it would.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:14 pm

First point:On why they'd fight.

Consider a tournament setting. The idea isn't to kill eachother, just to see who's stronger.

Assume a fair tournament with both contestants starting about 3 paces apart. No Dragonballs handy, no Kryptonite handy, no rewinding time because the battle has to be fought in the tournament, not before or after.

Let's give Superman his full power of Pre-Crisis Silver age.
Let's also assume that Goku has to be able to match his speed and strength before he can win, or Superman'll melee him before he can launch the notoriously long charging Kamehameha.

Let's further note one other point:Superman has no Ki, so Goku can't use Ki Sensing to find him. He has to see Superman with his eyes. Yes, having no Ki can be an advantage...look at the Android Saga.

So what level does a Saiyjin need to be to beat a Kryptonian?

Dunkleheit · Post by **Dunkleheit** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:44 am

The reason the Androids didn't have Ki was because they were (mostly) robots. Even squirrels have Ki, it's just barely noticeable.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:17 am

The restriction still applies.

Goku would have to be perfectly at peace and still to sense ki the size of a squirrel. He'd never manage to sense soemthing that faint with his power flaring.

Aquaignis · Post by **Aquaignis** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:03 pm

Who says he has to use the kamehameha?

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:15 pm

Angelalex242 wrote:Let's also assume that Goku has to be able to match his speed and strength before he can win, or Superman'll melee him before he can launch the notoriously long charging Kamehameha.

Actually, several times Goku launched the Kamehameha attack with incredible speed. Sure, sometimes we had entire seasons with him still charging one shot of it, but doesn't mean it was always the case

.

Angelalex242 wrote:Let's further note one other point:Superman has no Ki, so Goku can't use Ki Sensing to find him. He has to see Superman with his eyes. Yes, having no Ki can be an advantage...look at the Android Saga.

Actually, all living things have Ki, so I would be more inclined to believe that Superman has Ki too. Ki is life energy, and superman is alive.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:49 pm

Right, but Superman doesn't read as having a powerlevel on a scouter.

Despite his Kryptonian Powers, you couldn't tell him apart from a normal human with a scouter.

Roas Atrades · Post by **Roas Atrades** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:01 pm

I think I need to restate the sentiment that this entire thread is insane.

I mean, come on. This entire discussion is silly beyond silly. DB is on the lowest level of the anime ladder, having next to no substance or reasoning. Yeah, it's great to once and a while watch a couple guys beat each other up in a five minute fight that lasts 20 episodes.....but in the end it's only good for time filler when there is nothing else to watch....and I mean absolutely nothing. Brain cells should not be wasted debating or discussing DBz

It's just not worth the effort.

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:22 pm

Superman would only have a shot if he were Pre-Crisis, before a lot of his powers got killed.

It was at that time when Superman could push whole planets into different places in the universe, and use his Super-Breath to quell a Supernova that threatened Earth.

He would need those ridiculous powers to even have a shot at Goku. And that's if Goku wasn't at his total canonical max.

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:08 pm

How would we know he doesn't show up on the scouter? Unless of course he was in the DB series are one time... *shrugs*

Speaking of scouters, at one point in highschool I attempted to use math to calculate people's power level

Needless to say, I was successfull only to a small extent.

And Roas, DB series was and still is one of my favorite anime series. Therefore, I have set aside roughly 94.86256% of my brain cells to this conversation. Which I think amounts to around 3 or 4 cells. *shrugs*

Roas Atrades · Post by **Roas Atrades** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:57 pm

phyco126 wrote:And Roas, DB series was and still is one of my favorite anime series. Therefore, I have set aside roughly 94.86256% of my brain cells to this conversation. Which I think amounts to around 3 or 4 cells. *shrugs*

Oh well...here goes my brain cells...but I have to clarify my stance.

Original DB was a solid show. There was no such thing as power levels and super beings to muck it all up. The fighting in DB was all about skill, technique, and strategy, not to mention more simplified stories with decent plots. Taking over the world is a better cliche, IMO, then having the planet almost blowed up constantly cuz a super being is testy.

Late arcs of DBz/GT are what's so out the way absurd to me. Yeah, it was fun for the first two arcs (Seijyans and Freeza), but after that it starts to really go into the stratosphere. Cell Saga was okay, and when that ended they had the perfect out because Goku had nobily sacrificed himself...but they could not let the money machine end

Nope, Goku had to come back and save the day again and again. I'm all for a good hero always winning out...but the way it always came down to everyone else being useless and Goku having to save the day...just got old fast

.

I thought it was cool how Gohan was the uber-mench at the end of Cell, that someone else saved the day. The series really could have ended perfectly right then and there, and maintained a level of dignity outside of cliches.

Combine the continuation of escalating villains of obscene powers, with the craziness with the power levels, and where is the suspension of disbelief? Yes, it's cool to watch the different forms of SSJ, and I still get a kick out of that, but what is there to really look forward to if you know the Goku is always gonna find some new transformation to beat the next godlike enemy? From a story telling POV, it's just lackluster.

Original DB was cool and fun because it had a certain level of dignity. The beginnings of DBz were nice and entertaining, but those whom held the reigns clearly lost control and just kinda let it keep going off to greater and greater heights of super poweredness. I should have been clearer that my remarks were geared more towards DBz/GT rather than the original series of DB.

I've clarified my statment, which I cleary realize is in complete hypocracy, but as I said, I wanted to clarify myself.

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:29 pm

Combine the continuation of escalating villains of obscene powers, with the craziness with the power levels, and where is the suspension of disbelief?

You mean when their levels are near the billions at the end of the DB series? Hehe, I know what you mean.

Everything you said makes sense, I have actually lost a lot of the urge to watch the series after the cell saga. The Freeza saga wore me out pretty bad, especially when freeza destroyed the core of the planet.

Freeza: Hahahaha! I cannot kill Goku, but I can kill him by destroying the planet!
Goku: Ho ho ho! What is freeza doing? I'm gonna kick his ass!
Freeza: *tosses ball of energy down to planet*
Goku: Oh no! I can't believe I didn't notice that! There is no way I can stop it! Although my power level is 3 million I am still not fast enough to intercept it! What ever will I do?
Freeza: Hahahahaha! No you will die!
*3 episodes later*
Goku: NOOOOOOOOO!
*massive ball of energy hits the planet and destroys the core*
Freeza: You now have 5 minutes before the planet goes boom, BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasps for air* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*14 episodes later*
Freeza: *gasp* I'm dead!
Goku: YAY!
Gohan: YAY!
Bulma: ABOUT TIME!

So yeah, I understand what you mean. Still doesn't take away my feelings for the show though. However, I think you all would find this a bit entertaining, if you haven't already seen it.

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/31681
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/109582

Roas Atrades · Post by **Roas Atrades** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:29 pm

phyco126 wrote:Freeza: Hahahaha! I cannot kill Goku, but I can kill him by destroying the planet!
Goku: Ho ho ho! What is freeza doing? I'm gonna kick his ass!
Freeza: *tosses ball of energy down to planet*
Goku: Oh no! I can't believe I didn't notice that! There is no way I can stop it! Although my power level is 3 million I am still not fast enough to intercept it! What ever will I do?
Freeza: Hahahahaha! No you will die!
*3 episodes later*
Goku: NOOOOOOOOO!
*massive ball of energy hits the planet and destroys the core*
Freeza: You now have 5 minutes before the planet goes boom, BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *gasps for air* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*14 episodes later*
Freeza: *gasp* I'm dead!
Goku: YAY!
Gohan: YAY!
Bulma: ABOUT TIME!

Heh. yup, it was the 5 min fight that lasted 20 episodes that began unraveling my total enjoyment of the series. I still enjoyed Cell Games well enough, because I wanted to see Gohan go SSJ 2 and be the new badass, but then Buu Saga was mostly disappointing. From all the clips of the second Goku .vs. Vegeta fight I'd seen I was expecting something better...but it was not as good as I'd hoped...probably because it kept getting interrupted by other pointless scenes.

I actually made myself watch GT, just because of the mild obsession I have about finishing things I start. Personally, I felt a little jyped when Vegeta gets SSJ 4...for all of two seconds

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:59 pm

Is GT any better than DBZ in terms of long drawn out fights? The whole reason I got into DBZ was the whole martial artist thing, and being able to use your chi as a weapon. When the fights got too drawn out, I lost alot of intrest. Still wouldn't mind getting the DVD sets if they have them though. As for the Cell Games, Gohan was uber leet

Roas Atrades · Post by **Roas Atrades** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:38 am

phyco126 wrote:Is GT any better than DBZ in terms of long drawn out fights? The whole reason I got into DBZ was the whole martial artist thing, and being able to use your chi as a weapon. When the fights got too drawn out, I lost alot of intrest. Still wouldn't mind getting the DVD sets if they have them though. As for the Cell Games, Gohan was uber leet

Well, I'm not sure. I was sorta paying attention and yet not when I was watching it. I think, timeline wise, Goku's final fight against the last dark dragon went on for 3 days DBGT time. Some fights only lasted two episodes, while others did get drawn out. SSJ 4 Goku .vs. Ape Vegeta/Babi went on for a little while. And then lots of other nutty stuff would probably not interest you...like how kid Goku, not transformed at all, can take on both Freeza and Cell at the same time in the underworld

GT takes extreme to a whole new level.

And it's all out on DVD, been for a long time. Back when I was still trying to finish the Freeza saga on CN, I was tempted to buy the stuff...but never did

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:05 am

Ah, but wasn't kid Goku still able to keep his non-supersayian powerlevel?

I remember seeing a clip of non-supersayian teenage gohan punching final transformed Freeza in the gut and Freeza died. That was cool. Don't have a clue if that was a movie or series though, since after all the movies are based in a different timeline than the series is.

Roas Atrades · Post by **Roas Atrades** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:27 am

phyco126 wrote:
I remember seeing a clip of non-supersayian teenage gohan punching final transformed Freeza in the gut and Freeza died. That was cool. Don't have a clue if that was a movie or series though, since after all the movies are based in a different timeline than the series is.

Pretty sure that's a movie, but it's supposed to be post Buu Saga, so Gohan would have had the power up he got towards the end of that so he could go toe to toe with Pre-Gohan absorbed Buu, which would easily make him more powerful than Freeza....

owe...my head hurts now

DeathBeforeDenial · Post by **DeathBeforeDenial** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:31 pm

GT, not so much, that's where things just went right out the window in terms of strength.

Power Levels in the Billions, it was at this point that Goku could move entire populations from one world to another using his Shunkan Ido technique (I think that's what it was). So GT kind of took the same path that Superman took, it started reasonable but there were just ridiculous leaps in power every saga and they never had an event that took power away from individuals.

Goku's ability to also be powered up any time he gets beaten close to death, but not killed is also one of those things that made the power levela just crazy. It's like how powerful are some of these beings. In the Saiyan Sage Vegeta he could destroy Earth using his Galick Gun attack, and thats when his power level was about 20,000 so how these guys wouldn't destroy Earth just by walking around towards the end just had me shaking my head.

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