Battle System Poll

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Which battle system would you prefer?

The one in Dragon Song
0
No votes
The one in Dragon Song, if I could choose which enemies to target and armor didn't break and there was only one mode (instead of Normal and Virtue)
2
8%
Lunar Legend's was just fine
1
4%
The one in SSSC/EBC
13
54%
The original (TSS)
8
33%
 
Total votes: 24
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Alunissage
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Postby Alunissage » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:38 am

Hehe. Yeah, the first time I cast Blue Dragon Vigor was with Lemina. It was kind of funny seeing her use that bow eight or nine times, though. Actually, she might have been a reason for removing the spell, since she doesn't really physically attack in EBC, does she? I agree, it sucked that Vigor was removed. Healing was a cheap substitute for having an honest fifth spell, a corner the developers painted themselves into by restricting the number of spells to eight in SSSC and then making the Goddess Crest merely a boost to other crests in EBC.

I have a hard time seeing the Red Dragon spell being a healing one, though. It just seems incongruous. Though Ronfar was the party analogue to the Red Dragon, and he was the healer...maybe having Black Dragon being an attack spell would have fit in well with Lemina's powers. Grief/Sigh was worthless. The SSSC guide recommended using it to get to the female bathing spring since the enemies there were ridiculously tough and gave little EXP, but I muscled through before then. At least Holy Light did actual damage against bosses, and looked cooler too.

I don't think I mind that Poe Sword got a bit weakened and was a bit more expensive in the remake, since it was rather overpowered in EB, especially when Hiro has lots of MP. The one time it wasn't the most efficient spell was at the beginning, when powering up his Wind spells to three or four made Boomerang strong enough to take enemies out (like those mummies) and cost 3 MP instead of 4. Of course, that was also the only time the Wind spells were at all useful. I miss Dark Sword, though, even though I never understood the description (split-screen??). That was worth putting the Snake Ring on him for.

Incidentally, not all the dragon spells cost 99 MP in the Japanese EB. I think one was 98, one was 75, and one may have been 51 or thereabouts. I'm reasonably sure Red Dragon Anger was 75, and it wasn't any more worthwhile at that price. (You could get nearly the same disappointment from the Flame Fist, for free...I swear, the placement of the chests was nuts. Having that in the epilogue was ridiculous. Almost as bad as the two best bows for Lemina being in the same dungeon only one floor apart.)

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Postby Sonic# » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:02 am

Angelalex242 wrote:If they were gonna change anything, change Black Dragon Grief.

Completely useless spell, that one. Unless you LIKE not getting any XP...


Actually, I have used Black Dragon Grief before, quite recently. In Ruid. I was at the losing end of a fight and didn't want to risk a run because I was saving my healing magic/items, and felt like I would fail. Fighting would cost me too much as well.

But yeah, I've not used it often, and can't see many other occasions of doing so.
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Dragonmaster Lou
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Postby Dragonmaster Lou » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:06 am

Alunissage wrote:Hehe. Yeah, the first time I cast Blue Dragon Vigor was with Lemina. It was kind of funny seeing her use that bow eight or nine times, though. Actually, she might have been a reason for removing the spell, since she doesn't really physically attack in EBC, does she? I agree, it sucked that Vigor was removed. Healing was a cheap substitute for having an honest fifth spell, a corner the developers painted themselves into by restricting the number of spells to eight in SSSC and then making the Goddess Crest merely a boost to other crests in EBC.


True, very true... I always did prefer the classic "one new spell per piece of dragon equipment" thing... SSSC lost that because of how Althena's Sword was handled and how it provided no new spells (though wasn't it #Atk's+1, if I recall?).

I have a hard time seeing the Red Dragon spell being a healing one, though. It just seems incongruous. Though Ronfar was the party analogue to the Red Dragon, and he was the healer...maybe having Black Dragon being an attack spell would have fit in well with Lemina's powers. Grief/Sigh was worthless. The SSSC guide recommended using it to get to the female bathing spring since the enemies there were ridiculously tough and gave little EXP, but I muscled through before then. At least Holy Light did actual damage against bosses, and looked cooler too.


I agree that Red Dragon doesn't seem like much for a healing spell -- it's just that was a multi-hit spell it was nearly useless, especially at the 99MP it cost in the original EB. It just wasn't potent enough. It may not have been as bad if they made it some uber-powerful and comparitively expensive MP wise, though.

And yeah, Holy Light was one of the best looking Lunar spells ever.

I don't think I mind that Poe Sword got a bit weakened and was a bit more expensive in the remake, since it was rather overpowered in EB, especially when Hiro has lots of MP. The one time it wasn't the most efficient spell was at the beginning, when powering up his Wind spells to three or four made Boomerang strong enough to take enemies out (like those mummies) and cost 3 MP instead of 4. Of course, that was also the only time the Wind spells were at all useful. I miss Dark Sword, though, even though I never understood the description (split-screen??). That was worth putting the Snake Ring on him for.


Well, I was a Poe Sword fan boy, I admit it. :) Dark Sword was also super-useful, and it would've bee nice if they kept it around. It saved my butt many times in Lionhead and Dragon's Nest.

Incidentally, not all the dragon spells cost 99 MP in the Japanese EB. I think one was 98, one was 75, and one may have been 51 or thereabouts. I'm reasonably sure Red Dragon Anger was 75, and it wasn't any more worthwhile at that price. (You could get nearly the same disappointment from the Flame Fist, for free...I swear, the placement of the chests was nuts. Having that in the epilogue was ridiculous. Almost as bad as the two best bows for Lemina being in the same dungeon only one floor apart.)


Heh, I never know that (about the spells). I wonder why WD changed it?
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Angelalex242
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Postby Angelalex242 » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:25 am

Althena's sword is attacks# +1 AND regenerates you in SSSC yes.
It is also attacks# +1 and regenerates you in EBC...but ONLY if combined with the Goddess crest.
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Alunissage
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Postby Alunissage » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:47 am

It wasn't until watching the speedrun of TSS that I realized that Alex doesn't automatically get a third attack from becoming Dragonmaster/getting the sword (since I'd never played with him that low a level). Apparently I always reached whatever level gives #atk+1 right when I got the sword or shortly thereafter.

If you're curious, in EB the sword does not give any additional attack. Its stats are atk +230, wisdom +20, enables Purity Litany (highest single-person cure).

Sadly, EB is the one console game I don't have a Japanese guide for (haven't heard of one existing at all). However, JWL, a poster at the Shrine to Ghaleon (who used to go by The Hatless Dezorian), made a very comprehensive list of changes between the versions, and I finally found my copy. The dragon spell cost changes:

White Dragon Protect: From 93 MP to 99 MP.
Blue Dragon Vigor: From 75 MP to 99 MP.
Black Dragon Shield: From 45 MP to 99 MP.
Red Dragon Anger: From 80 MP to 99 MP.
Althena's Light: From 98 MP to 99 MP.

I'd guess that the changes were because WDP and Althena's Light were already so close to 99, and then the rest were changed to match. They're kind of odd numbers anyway, in the original.

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DevNall
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Postby DevNall » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:31 pm

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever figured out what the grid dimensions are in the originals?

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ZP
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Postby ZP » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:52 pm

Went with the original, mainly because of its speed. I'm also taking the random battles into account since I didn't like the execution of the visible enemies.

I liked the ideas that were present in Magical School also. That is, combination spells, and learning spells through events other than gaining experience. But since other elements are missing, I wouldn't have voted for it.

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Postby That Other Person » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:12 am

I really like the visual enemies in the remake. It works really well.
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