FF VIII (re)visited

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Werefrog
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FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Werefrog »

I am finally finishing FF VIII. I first started playing FF8 fifteen years ago when I rented it from a Hollywood Video store (the details of this story keeps making me feel older and older...)

I didn't make it far. My original model Playstation overheated every time I got into a battle. When I bought my own copy a year later, I wasn't impressed. The new battle system confused me. The angsty protagonist annoyed me. I was expecting to play FF VII again, and the game didn't deliver. Besides, my tastes in RPGs had shifted to lighter fare after discovering Lunar (I can't remember how I discovered Lunar... possibly EGM?).

A couple of months ago, I decided on a whim to download FF VIII on steam. I have been surprised just how much I have enjoyed it. Yeah, Squall annoys me still. But the rest of the cast balances him well (it takes about 1.5 discs to get to that dynamic though). The battle system works much better than I remembered. The only problem I have with the junction system is that by eliminating equipment junctioning became too important. Square should have eased players into the changes in the battle system. The story is a little cornbally, but hey, it's a JRPG.

Most of my complaints are more directed to the era. The characters walk too slowly. It's too hard to find exactly where to walk (that one is compounded by town/dungeon design). The graphics are so ugly. TOO MANY RANDOM ENCOUNTERS!!!

*Ahem* I really like FF VIII and am now considering revisiting all PS FFs. I tried FF VII a while back and quickly gave up.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by JonOU812 »

I got FFVIII on my PSP (as well as VII and IX) a while back and played it up to the end of disc 3.
I believe FFVIII is actually underrated; for its time, the graphics were improved, sound is always amazing (praise Nobuo), even the story was pretty good.
The battle system was a little complicated at first until you get the hang of it, you can practically start wrecking in the very beginning. As for the characters I really didn't have a problem with Squall (maybe cause I relate to him? idk) but like you said the rest of the characters seem to balance him out.

Once you get into it, it's actually really good if you can get past the dated graphics and all other quirks.

Hint: You can change random encounters via a certain GF, in case you didn't know
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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Werefrog »

I just learned Enc-None. Seems like cheating though. It's really hard for me to play RPGs from this era because of the graphics. I am okay with the 8-bit and 16-bit era RPGs and what came after. The PS RPGs literally hurt my eyes. At the end of the generation they got it right with Legend of Mana (well that was 2-d though, right?), Chrono Cross, and FF IX. But until then... geez. That's the main reason I couldn't get into Xenogears.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Alunissage »

About a decade ago I decided I wanted to play through all of the FFs in order, with the main reason that I wanted to get to FFVIII and play it. I had watched/helped my housemate play it and we got to somewhere on the third disc before learning that we'd missed two GFs and would have to redo several hours to get them, so had never finished it. But I was always intrigued by the draw and junction systems, and liked the idea of having a protagonist that was employed and getting a salary, and of course liked the card game -- that's how I got into the rest of the game, actually; I came into the room while my housemate was contemplating a Triple Triad layout, saw it for the first time and studied it for about 30 seconds, told him to make such-and-such play, and he won. Hey, I'm good at this. What's the context?

In my efforts to play all the games I'm... near the end of FF2. This may take a while. I'll probably skip ahead to playing 8.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Sonic# »

That is a mighty ambitious plan.

I got to disc 2 in FF8 about 8 months ago or so. I really enjoyed it. When I first played the game in 1999, I didn't realize that drawing more of a particular magic made the junction effect more powerful. So I got up to disc 4 not realizing why the game was so difficult or how I could possibly be expected to beat any of the optional stuff like Diablos.

This time, I drew. It made the game a lot more fun. And the story is one of my favorite in the FF series, the implausibility of  such perfect memory loss aside.
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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Werefrog »

Sonic# wrote: I got to disc 2 in FF8 about 8 months ago or so. I really enjoyed it. When I first played the game in 1999, I didn't realize that drawing more of a particular magic made the junction effect more powerful. So I got up to disc 4 not realizing why the game was so difficult or how I could possibly be expected to beat any of the optional stuff like Diablos.
I figured that out a little bit before the end of disc 3. No way I could have finished it otherwise. The Junction/Draw system was interesting but I still think it's a little broken. I may have exploited the system a bit but once I made that realization at the end of disc 3, the game went from over difficult to overly easy. I thought the story was pretty good. I wonder how I would have felt if I hadn't ruined crucial plot-twists (usually, something I don't particularly care about because I usually figure them out beforehand).

I suck at triple triad. I'd like to get better at it. But improving my skills at a game within a game is pretty low on my priority list. Pretty sure that until my life changes significantly (like retirement or winning the lottery), this will be my last JRPG. Any game I play in the future will be more like Phoenix Wright. Easy to pick up. Easy to put down. Also, portability is a plus. If anyone has recommendations for similar games, I'd appreciate it.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Jenner »

FF7 is a bad game.

It's bad and you should feel bad.
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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Werefrog »

Jenner wrote:FF7 is a bad game.

It's bad and you should feel bad.
What if I don't really like it except for the nostalgia I feel about it being my first JRPG?

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Kizyr »

Werefrog wrote:
Jenner wrote:FF7 is a bad game.
It's bad and you should feel bad.
What if I don't really like it except for the nostalgia I feel about it being my first JRPG?
Ah there'll always be fond memories for your first. I mean, my first was Vay, and that's a... good game at best? (I'd like to say it's better than FF7, but hey that might also be nostalgia talking). KF
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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Werefrog »

FF VII is impossible for me to play anymore. The graphics make me feel really nauseous.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Sonic# »

My first was FFIV, and it's still one of my favorite. So is Earthbound, the first I beat, and Legend of Legaia, the first I owned and beat. (Lunar: SSSC was the second or third I owned and beat - Brave Fencer Musashi happened at around the same time. It had a lot to live up to, and it did.)
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Alunissage »

Legaia! I finally started a replay of that a few months ago and then paused for travel and haven't gotten back to it. It was the first RPG, maybe even the first game, that I played while it was more or less current -- I bought it because I went to a store for SSSC and they didn't have it in stock and I was all set to play something. Its soundtrack is still one of my favorites.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Jenner »

My first RPG was Wizardry.
Then I played Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades and Pools of Darkness consecutively.
By the time I was done with that I was able to play Gateway to the Savage Frontier and Treasures of the Savage Frontier together.
I mean these were traditional western RPGs, and I was crazy familiar with D&D.

But FF IV was my first JRPG, and I'm quite fond of it because I feel it was pretty good (and also nostalgia.) Though, I will seriously go to battle for FF6 being the best of the pre-FMV Final Fantasies and FF9 being the best of the post-FMV Final Fantasies.

Lunar: The Silver Star was second or third JRPG, I think. It's the first "anime" thing I saw and got me into it.
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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Werefrog »

Jenner wrote: But FF IV was my first JRPG, and I'm quite fond of it because I feel it was pretty good (and also nostalgia.) Though, I will seriously go to battle for FF6 being the best of the pre-FMV Final Fantasies and FF9 being the best of the post-FMV Final Fantasies.
From my POV, I can agree with that but it's a toss-up between 8 and 9 for me. But I definitely agree about 6. To me, Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger are the two main contenders for Square's masterpiece. They were both the crowning point of a great generation.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Leo »

Final Fantasy 8 is awful. The story has plenty of plot holes and some of the writing and ridiculous twists are on par with M. Night Shayamalan's stuff.

That said, it also has one of the best soundtracks in video game history and Triple Triad is quite a good time.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

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The only plot twist that was ridiculous to me was  the reveal that they were all living in the same orphanage and that GFs cause memory loss. Granted, that's a pretty major plot twist. The ending plot twist made a great deal of sense to me,  but I watch a lot of Doctor Who. So, I can just say Wibbly-Wobbly Timey-Wimey to sort out problems involving non-linear time.

Am I the only one who really doesn't care about plot holes? Sometimes I like connecting the dots myself.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Alunissage »

I'll point and laugh at plot holes, figuratively, but if I'm enjoying the game otherwise they're generally not going to change that. If I'm already annoyed by the game I'll be pretty trenchant about the holes, though, and if it's a primarily story-driven game it can really be a problem. There's one case in Ace Attorney 5 that a friend of mine got pretty annoyed about because there's a graphic that basically contradicts the case as it plays out.

I don't mind plot gaps generally, where some bit of explanation or connection is left out and the player can reconstruct it. Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright has several of those where it would've been nice to have had the dialogue to confirm the links I figured out but it wasn't deleterious to not have them spelled out. Then again, the Layton games in particular are always really credulity-straining for me.

I didn't finish FF8 (have seen to somewhere early in the third disc, I think), but I did see the thing you put in spoiler tags. The GF part seemed a lot more odd to me than the other part (as far as RPGs go), though it was an interesting attempt to mix storyline and gameplay. I'm probably more annoyed by SSSC's having Alex specifically refuse to learn magic, which I think was to give a reason for why he only had four spells besides the dragon magic. That one makes even less sense with Laike having no magic (as opposed to the "skills" he had in TSS, along with Kyle and Tempest), because Laike should have sword skills akin to Alex's, if Alex's weren't "magic". (And also, Alex and Luna's having 0 MP at the end of SSSC, though that was a WD addition.)

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Shiva Indis »

I find that the term "plot hole" is often used subjectively. I expect it to mean "I found the author's mistake and I could have told this story better", but the issue is often no more concrete than "I didn't like the direction the story went in". Then we queue the arguements back and forth about whether or not the author sufficiently justified X aspect of the story when it's really a matter of taste.

I didn't like the direction FFVIII took at the end either, but I never managed to reconcile the differences in tone from the first disc to the later ones. My FFVIII would have had Idea as a well-intentioned extremist mastermind.
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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Werefrog »

Shiva Indis wrote: I didn't like the direction FFVIII took at the end either, but I never managed to reconcile the differences in tone from the first disc to the later ones. My FFVIII would have had Idea as a well-intentioned extremist mastermind.
That'd make a lot of sense actually. There is a huge difference between the first disc and the rest. I felt the first disc was more focused and through the rest of the game you were just ping ponging back and forth to different towns.

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Re: FF VIII (re)visited

Post by Sonic# »

Shiva Indis wrote:I find that the term "plot hole" is often used subjectively. I expect it to mean "I found the author's mistake and I could have told this story better", but the issue is often no more concrete than "I didn't like the direction the story went in". Then we queue the arguements back and forth about whether or not the author sufficiently justified X aspect of the story when it's really a matter of taste.
I agree about "plot holes" - it's often used to describe what we think needs to be explained, rather than pointing to a substantial inconsistency.
That'd make a lot of sense actually. There is a huge difference between the first disc and the rest. I felt the first disc was more focused and through the rest of the game you were just ping ponging back and forth to different towns.
That's what throws me off on every playthrough, sooner or later - "Oh, I have to go here? And there's the card game? And this? And that?" I feel like disc 2 and on require tremendous focus from the player to move at a pace resembling that in disc 1.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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