Why I didn't like the DC

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northfire
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Why I didn't like the DC

Postby northfire » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:31 pm

Before the DC was released I was a big Sega fan. I loved their games, their consoles and their magazines. So when the DC was announced I couldn't wait to get one. I bought an import DC in early 1999 and expected great graphics, great games and great success for Sega. Well, the graphics were great, better than anything else at the time. However, I was very disappointed with the games and Sega themselves. Why? Let me explain:
-Few games: the DC had few games in 1999 and the trend continued for years.
-Sega killed 2D games: Sega used to release many 2D games each year... until they launched the DC.
-Where have their successful franchises gone?: What happened to Panzer Dragoon, Lunar, Burning Rangers etc... Why didn't they release sequels for the DC? Don't we deserve something better than Chu Chu Rocket?
-The DC logo really sucked.
-The controllers were terrible for Capcom games.

Now I know that many people really like the console and the games. What I'm trying to say is that Sega neglected many fans in an effort to "please everyone".

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Dunkleheit
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Postby Dunkleheit » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:20 am

Don't go bad-mouthing Chu-Chu Rocket, it's a great game. (At least the Puzzle half is.)
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Alunissage
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Postby Alunissage » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:26 am

Um, okay, that seems rather random, especially for a first post.

It's not really realistic to call Lunar a Sega series, considering that the Saturn games were ported to PS (and PC, in the case of SSS).

northfire
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Lunar

Postby northfire » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:00 pm

Yes, technicaly it is not a Sega game. However, it was a Sega exclusive for many years so I consider it to be a Sega game.

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Postby Sonic# » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:47 pm

Concerning Sega's 'killing' of 2D games... wasn't that what was happening on other consoles at the time? Admittedly, some beautiful 2D games (like Legend of Mana) came out after 1999, but by the PS2 and Gamecube, I can only think of a small handfull of 2D games that aren't ports from earlier generations.

The small number of games was a problem, admittedly.

However, I still liked the Dreamcast a lot. The logo was fine for me. The VMU was a nifty idea, especially with games that actually used it, though automatically charging it through the controller would've been ideal, rather than having to replace the batteries.

And some of my favorite games came out for that system. Space Channel 5, Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, Soul Caliber, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia II.... not enough to make an absolutely awesome system, no, but considering that 5 out of 6 of those were ported to other systems (with varying degrees of quality), I would say they were innovative, but they didn't get enough support, and when the GC and PS2 came out... ow. Crunch.

And I was fine with the controller, but I didn't play the capcom games you mentioned.
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Re: Lunar

Postby Alunissage » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:47 pm

northfire wrote:Yes, technicaly it is not a Sega game. However, it was a Sega exclusive for many years so I consider it to be a Sega game.

Still, that was GA's decision and not Sega's. The PS port of SSS came out before the Dreamcast, and there were no new installments of the series until after Sega was no longer producing hardware.

We only have a handlul of Dreamcast games ourselves -- Space Channel 5, Shenmue, Shenmue II, Rez, and Skies of Arcadia. And I think one other one that I'm forgetting. I'm not sorry to have it, though, as I may someday have time to get to those games, and I have no problem with having a console for just a few games.

Someone who's followed the game industry more than I have would have to expand on this, but the downplaying of 2D was certainly before the DC. One of the consistent comments/criticisims of the Saturn I've heard is that the system is built for 2D games and then 3D games were made for it because that was the hot new thing and this was a problem because the architecture just wasn't well-suited for that and programming 3D on it was a hassle.

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Re: Lunar

Postby Roas Atrades » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:20 pm

Alunissage wrote:We only have a handlul of Dreamcast games ourselves -- Space Channel 5, Shenmue, Shenmue II, Rez, and Skies of Arcadia. And I think one other one that I'm forgetting.


You didn't mention Soul Calibur. That could be it.

K..that's all I'm putting into this :P
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Postby Alunissage » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:18 pm

Eh? Why would I have Soul Calibur? I couldn't care less about fighting games. I'm thinking there's a Grandia game I'm forgetting.

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Postby Sonic# » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:23 pm

I forgot about Shenmue! I really liked that game, but never played II due to its limited availability, and then its being ported to X-Box.

If it's a Grandia game, Alunissage, it must be Grandia II. I believe that by X-Treme, they had moved to the PS2.
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"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Postby Alunissage » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:52 pm

Yeah, I just don't remember if we ever got II. We have the first on Saturn, complete with Japanese guide, and two copies of the PS one, none of which I have played. (We wanted to see if there was a difference in music quality the way there is for Lunar. There isn't, according to I-Gene.) I think we probably do have II. Oh, and I have the Dragonriders of Pern game. My housemate and I played through that for several hours with a lack of VMU and therefore no way to save, only to get killed. Haven't gotten back to it. :P

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Postby Roas Atrades » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:00 am

Alunissage wrote:Eh? Why would I have Soul Calibur? I couldn't care less about fighting games. I'm thinking there's a Grandia game I'm forgetting.


Well...you were just mentioning games NA had for the DC, not RPG's specifically, so I simply figured SC could have been on that list. Didn't know you were excluding it :P
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Postby GhaleonOne » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:11 am

Powerstone was a wicked good Dreamcast game IMO. I'm not usually into fighters either, but I really liked it. I hear there's a Powerstone I and II compilation coming to the PSP, but I probably won't get it even if I pick up a PSP eventually. Games like that are more fun when you have friends gathered around the big screen. But admittedly, Soul Caliber is the only one of those styles of fighters (Tekken, etc.) that I actually like.
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Postby Alunissage » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:55 am

Roas Atrades wrote:Well...you were just mentioning games NA had for the DC, not RPG's specifically, so I simply figured SC could have been on that list. Didn't know you were excluding it :P

Actually, I wasn't -- one of the ones I named was Shenmue II, which was not released on the DC in NA. Ours is the Euro one (as is our Rez).

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Postby PurifyWeirdSoul » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:48 am

The Dreamcast is a fine gaming system. 3rd party support may have been a bit on the anemic side, but the system itself is quite powerful. What really made DC great was the online features. Sure, in the U.S. it was pretty lame, but Japan had it all. They had fighting game matches over online! That was unheard of before! Anyways, here's a list of great games I can remember:

Carrier (survival horror)
Capcom Vs. SNK (2d fighter)
Capcom Vs. SNK 2 (2d fighter)
Choas Field (2d shooter)
Ecco the Dolphin
Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves (2d fighter, a.k.a. Garou)
Ferrari Challenge (3d driver)
Fighting Vipers 2 (3d fighter)
Giga Wing (2d shooter)
Giga Wing 2 (2d/3d shump, 4-player action)
Grandia 2 (3d rpg)
Guilty Gear X (2d fighter)
Gunbird 2 (2d shooter)
House of the Dead 2 (3d shooter)
Ikaruga (2d shooter, 'sequel' to Radiant Silvergun)
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (2d fighter)
King of Fighters series (2d fighter)
Mars Matrix (2d shooter, craziness)
Marvel vs. Capcom (2d fighter)
Marvel vs. Capcom 2 (2d fighter, superior to PS2 verion)
Phantasy Star Online (3d rpg)
Project Justice (3d fighter, sequel to Rival Schools)
Psyvariar (2d shooter)
Sega GT (3d driver)
Shenmue series
Skies of Arcadia (3d rpg)
Sonic series
Soul Calibur
Street Fighter Alpha 3 (2d fighter, arcade perfect goodness)
Street Fighter 3: DI
Street Fighter 3: TS
Vampire Chronicles (2d fighter, complation)
Virtua Cop series
Virtua Fighter 3tb
Virtua On (3d mech)

I'm sure I'm missing quite a few out there. As you know, there have been ports of DC games on other consoles. But the only one, where the DC version isn't superior is SF3: TS. The crown for best SF3: TS version would have to go to the XBrick unfortunately. Ikaruga was ported over to the Gamecube, but as far as I know, it was pretty much a direct port. Anyways, Dreamcast is (not was) a great system. Sure it lacks alot of top notch franchises and rpgs, but arcade style games more than made up for it. 2D was VERY prevalent as you can discern from the list. It's not for everyone, but I've sure had a blast playing games on DC.

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Re: Why I didn't like the DC

Postby BraveKing » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:52 pm

-Few games: the DC had few games in 1999 and the trend continued for years.
-Sega killed 2D games: Sega used to release many 2D games each year... until they launched the DC.
-Where have their successful franchises gone?: What happened to Panzer Dragoon, Lunar, Burning Rangers etc... Why didn't they release sequels for the DC? Don't we deserve something better than Chu Chu Rocket?
-The DC logo really sucked.
-The controllers were terrible for Capcom games.


1. Still ahs the best ratio of good to bad games period and still ahs more than enough FANTASTIC games.

2. Ummm no, that would SCEA actually (Rimshot) but I seem to recall dreamcast have quite a large number of 2-d fighters that were better than the PS and often PS2 counter parts

3. Luanr isnt a sega franchise and they just made Panzer Dragoon Orta not to long ago and Burning rangers was never really a franchise anyways

4. LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME reason

5. Why hello there 3rd party controllers and sticks. And a few official arcade sticks have joined us today too


It was alos the first console that really did anything good with online playand thanks to the homebrew were still seeing stuff beeing done on it.
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Mattroid
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Postby Mattroid » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:13 am

While I agree the DC was lacking in some areas, it's still one of my fav systems of all time. I've had more multiplayer fun on the DC than most anything else (not counting any version of Mario Kart ever made).

However, and some my not agree, but the DC was pretty much a fighter's paradise. If you liked fighters, the DC was a dream machine. All the old 2D fighters were amazing as well as some newer ones. Of course, many of these were import only, which is a shame, but the US had it's fair share of great fighters on the console.

And not just 2D fighters, either. 3D fighters were awesome on DC.

And yes, Powerstone was an effin' blast.

However, I never could use the DC controller for 2D fighters...the d-pad just don't work for me. I had to get a PSX > DC controller converter to be able to compete. However, I still think that, while bulky, the DC controller is one of the best yet overall.

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Postby localflick » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:30 am

Fisrt off, I didn't think much about Powerstone until a bunch of my friends played the multiplayer mode. The fun lies in you with your friends screwing each other over trying to get all 3 power stones. Also, the interactive environments were awesome!

Now...
-Few games: the DC had few games in 1999 and the trend continued for years.
-Sega killed 2D games: Sega used to release many 2D games each year... until they launched the DC.
-Where have their successful franchises gone?: What happened to Panzer Dragoon, Lunar, Burning Rangers etc... Why didn't they release sequels for the DC? Don't we deserve something better than Chu Chu Rocket?
-The DC logo really sucked.
-The controllers were terrible for Capcom games.


While I could go on a rant that would last for days, let's keep this short and sweet:

-The early Dreamcast games were what set the 128-bit standard for that time. Innovative titles Like Crazy Taxi, Space Channel 5, and Sonic Adventure set the bar high with graphics and gameplay that are comparable to the games coming out for the GC or PS2. Like the N64 launch, they chose quality over quantity.
-Sega still makes good 2D games. Just today I played Sonic Advance 3 which was reased by Sonic Team. Sonic Rush for NDS is supposed to be pretty good too.
- Panzer Dragoon Orta came out not too long ago, and while it wasn't well recieved, Lunar Dragon Song was also recently released. Burning Rangers never had a sequal, and while it was a great stand-alone game, I'm not sure it was popular enough to be a "sucessful franchise."
-Have you played Sega Swirl?!
-For Capcom fighters like Snk Vs Capcom, and Marvel Versus Capcom 2 a 4-button face with two (less used) shoulder buttons was ideal. I got a 6-button Mad Catz one for Street Fighter 3.

Next!

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Postby YoshiMars » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:30 pm

Being a rather large Nintendo junkie (I have owned every system of theirs thus far... save for the really obscure ones like the "Virtual Boy") I never got around to aquring a DC. Though I can't see it as being so bad as I have purchased many of the re-releases that were ported over from it. That said I think the gaming quality was rather good... especially in comparison to other systems. Personally I'd rather have a small but good selection over a large one in which you have to weed out the gems.

Also, since the DC didn't last that long (to my knowledge anyway, which could be wrong), I don't believe there was all that much time to make a selection that... say the PS2 has. Had there been more time before Sega went to "games only" we would have seen more.

But I can't complain, without the DC I wouldn't have been able to play Skies of Arcadia on my Gamecube. That was well worth it. :)
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Postby Silver Phoenix » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:46 am

Sony had the backing because developers could churn out a lot more crap to make money. If you were to weed out the good games versus the bad then the libraries for each system would shrink dramatically. The Dreamcast had an uphill battle from the get-go because of Sega's mistake by rushing the Saturn into market. The Saturn had some stellar games that many people never got to play because they remained in Japan. I was a hardcore Saturn gamer, so I spent the money getting my system modified so I could play the games that would never reach these shores. Most of them being awesome Capcom developments.

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Mattroid
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Postby Mattroid » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:46 am

I agree. The Saturn really was a great system as well. Unfortunately, I never did get near the amount of games for it that I'd hoped. In fact, mine stopped working a few years after I had it and I was never able to get it fixed (the guy at the shop told me I'd be better off getting a used one on ebay sicne the part I needed had to come direct from Sega for the price of at least one arm).

I never did get another one :( I really need to sometime.

If you don't mind, could you list some of those good imports you'd recommend (feel free to PM them to me since this is slightly off topic for this thread).


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