Did anyone watch the G4 Speical on Violence in Videogames?

[Kale]

If anyone caught that, could you all tell me your opinions on it?

[Roas Atrades]

I don't have G4, but I've seen enough "specials" on the subject to say they are full of it

Without getting myself into a ranting mode (some of you know what that looks like ), I'll just say that anyone who cannot put violence in videogames in its place, or teach their children the difference between fantasy and reality, are morons.

Any sane person in their right mind will know they cannot mimic the things that go on the the fantastical videogames or the realtively realistic ones. If you are normal, you will be extremely into the game when you are playing it, but once that powe switch is off, you think rationally and go about your normal daily routenes.

I'll probably end up saying more if this thread expands, but that's all for now.

[DaWrestla]

Without getting myself into a ranting mode (some of you know what that looks like ), I'll just say that anyone who cannot put violence in videogames in its place, or teach their children the difference between fantasy and reality, are morons.

Any sane person in their right mind will know they cannot mimic the things that go on the the fantastical videogames or the realtively realistic ones. If you are normal, you will be extremely into the game when you are playing it, but once that powe switch is off, you think rationally and go about your normal daily routenes.

That may be so, but to say that chilren don't immitate (sp, sorry) what they see on TV on hear in music or play in video games is naive. It happens. I had that view when I was 15 and I have that view now as a 22 year old video game fan.

[Roas Atrades]

That may be so, but to say that chilren don't immitate (sp, sorry) what they see on TV on hear in music or play in video games is naive. It happens. I had that view when I was 15 and I have that view now as a 22 year old video game fan.

I never said children won't immitate. My point is not naive. My point is that parents and guardians should take responsibility and not simply blame others if a child or young adult does something stupid, and uses the "I saw it on TV/videogame" excuse for his/her actions.

Way too many parents want to avoid realizing that they did not do a decent job in relating moral and ethical values to their kids when something inappropriate occurs. They want to convince themselves so much that they were not at fault for not listening or even communicating on a decent level with their children, that they will go off, find a soap box, and raise holy hell against anyone else to blame but themselves.

The perfect example is South Park's brilliant commentary/spoof with the whole Blame Canada shtick in the South Park Movie.

So much of the crap that goes on in this kind of situation can be avoided if people and parents just sit down and have an intelligent conversation with kids. Kids may be kids, but if you treat them with respect, the listen and learn.

When I was young, my parents always sat me down and talked to me like a person when they wanted to explain real issues with me, and I learned to look at things rationally with educated information rather than rushing off like a chicken with its head cut off.

Games and TV may be violent, but there are plenty of warnings now a days about what content these things have. First, a parent should not be letting their 10 year old play a GTA game, and second, once parents do let these games in the house, they should take those responsible steps to make sure their kids know the difference between playing and living.

This is not naive. This is how good people run their lives and raise their families responsibly.

[DaWrestla]

I never said children won't immitate. My point is not naive. My point is that parents and guardians should take responsibility and not simply blame others if a child or young adult does something stupid, and uses the "I saw it on TV/videogame" excuse for his/her actions.

Way too many parents want to avoid realizing that they did not do a decent job in relating moral and ethical values to their kids when something inappropriate occurs.

Agreed 100%.

But, parents do not control everything in their children's lives, and no matter what they do their children will be exposed to violence in videogames (as an example). Parents can't be around kids 100% of the time (and probably shouldn't, either).

Now I'm not advocating censorship by any means. However, I do think it's fair for retail and wholesale outlets to not sell mature games to kids under 18 (again, as an example).

In terms of laws, I don't know if any are necessary. If they are, they should be local laws and certainly not federal when it comes to censorship of videogames. Not that congress doesn't have the authority to, because they do, but they just shouldn't.

[Roas Atrades]

But, parents do not control everything in their children's lives, and no matter what they do their children will be exposed to violence in videogames (as an example). Parents can't be around kids 100% of the time (and probably shouldn't, either).

By talking to the kids prior to possible problems, in effect the parents are there all the time.

If a parent and a child have had an open, intelligent conversation on a subject, and have an open and honest relationship, then the parent's influence will always be there in place of a physical body.

Their words, their knowledge and advice, would be that little voice in the back of one's head telling you right from wrong.

If a parent takes these steps, then there is no need for any form of censorship or constant survealance. A child has been raised properly, and thanks to wise and sage advice from adults they will make the write decisions and learn. Then they will go on the instill the same philosphies in their children, thus ensuring a positive cycle of life and growth.

Just a few simple words can make a world of difference in maturing.

[Kizyr]

Now I'm not advocating censorship by any means. However, I do think it's fair for retail and wholesale outlets to not sell mature games to kids under 18 (again, as an example).

It should be illegal. Store owners who find their employees selling games rated M or above to people under 17 should be fired, or threatened with being fired.

It sounds harsh, but it shouldn't be. Video stores won't sell pornography to minors (or, superficially they won't). Many theaters airing R-rated films will require an ID check. Video games have the same sort of violence, so it's entirely reasonable the same sort of measures need to be taken. Sure, a parent can buy an M-rated game for their kid (like a kid can see an R-rated film with parental supervision), but the kid shouldn't be able to purchase it on his own.

All the ridiculous "GTA made me do it" statements got out of hand because video games were treated as some 'innocent' media way too long. When folks finally took notice that video games could portray everything movies could, there was no gradual acclimation, just a sudden realization and knee-jerk reactions. KF

[Rune Lai]

I don't have a problem with restricting sales of M-rated video games to minors. It's not different from restricting R-rated movies. The only thing that gets me is when a parent buys a game like GTA, gives it to their kid, and then wails about the violence in the game. The parents should make an effort to learn about the ratings system if they're concerned about what their children play. That's what it's there for.

[Kale]

I agree with you all. Its a parents duty to be concerned with what their children are playing. And stores should start "carding" for M rated videogames. what gets me is that parents buy the games and then complain "Why are they selling such a violent videogame!?"

[DaWrestla]

Their words, their knowledge and advice, would be that little voice in the back of one's head telling you right from wrong.

Of course. But *come on*! Did you ALWAYS (as a kid) do what was expected of you? No! You're a kid and mischief was your middle name. You, like all kids, I'm sure did things you either a) knew were wrong or b) knew your parents didn't want you to do it. And 95% of kids are like this.

The only thing that gets me is when a parent buys a game like GTA, gives it to their kid, and then wails about the violence in the game.

That happens WAY too often.

[Roas Atrades]

Of course. But *come on*! Did you ALWAYS (as a kid) do what was expected of you? No! You're a kid and mischief was your middle name. You, like all kids, I'm sure did things you either a) knew were wrong or b) knew your parents didn't want you to do it. And 95% of kids are like this.

As a matter of fact, yes. As a kid I followed all the rules. What little stuff I did was more of a personal mistchief not external. Any damage I did was to myself not others.

I behaved myself so well that when I was older, I had privilages that my friends did not because my parents trusted me. And even when I had those privaleges, I didn't screw around and get into trouble. I don't count some of the crap I did in college, because A) I am my own person by then, B) the crap I did in college was mostly screwball stuff and never serious, and definitely not influenced by videogames

You're making too many generalizations, Dawrestla. A blanket statement that "kids will be kids" just does not have enough meat to carry your position.

[PrettyGirlJean]

I did not see the G4 show either, I'm sure that that crazy Jack Thompson was mentioned though 9_9

I'm not so sure that I agree with the knee-jerk statement because as it's been said, if you are involved with your children and their hobbies, such as video games you're going to know if it's good or bad whether there was a gradual or a sudden change in something that's been around a while. I'm basing my opinion on how I intend to be involved with my children. Of course as parents we can't know everything about everything, but, when your child asks you for something or you see that your child is becoming interested in something either look into if you don't know or talk to them about it and then do your homework.

I also agree that parents and other people in politics should grow up and get off the video game blame wagon. Long ago it was comics, now it's video games, just take some responsibility already I say.

Anyhow, a lot of the beliefs I have have been expressed so I won't repeat them all. A nice thread though! I'll be interested in reading more.

[drumlord]

It should be noted that restricting video game sales as a law is NOT the same as R-rated movies. That's a flawed comparison. The movie industry is self-regulated and the video game industry should be as well. Also, the law in California does not use M rating, but is actually far more open and could easily restrict hundreds of T-rated games because the guidelines ask that a "reasonable person" would find them to be too violent. This is similar to the Florida proposed law and the two other states that have laws. There are no laws that make the ESRB's rating system a legal guideline (that I know of).

Also, a comparison of video games to pornography is moot as well. Pornography is a special exception in any entertainment media and it has special rules. Any type of media can be deemed pornographic, games included. But pornography is not its own media type. There are pornographic books, pornographic movies, etc. Pornography is one of the main exceptions to free speech. But currently, ALL violent media is protected under free speech.

[DaWrestla]

You're making too many generalizations

Nope, don't think I am. Based on my experiences, anyway.

As a matter of fact, yes. As a kid I followed all the rules. What little stuff I did was more of a personal mistchief not external. Any damage I did was to myself not others.

1) I don't believe you and 2) That (1) doesn't matter because you know you better than I know you.

So, I'm content to let you win this one.

[Roas Atrades]

Nope, don't think I am. Based on my experiences, anyway.

Then share. Back up your statements. I've given some examples from myself, and I can from many other people I know. I need something more than a one liner here if we are gonna debate

1) I don't believe you and 2) That (1) doesn't matter because you know you better than I know you.

So, I'm content to let you win this one.

Fine, but I don't appreciate being called a liar, whether it's in jest or not. You can believe what you want, but I see no reason why I would BS in a true debate such as this. There is no reason. I like to win, but a win based on lies is not a win, so I fight fair because I believe in being honest about serious things.

Being honorable is a very big deal to me, and I tend to be very honest and up front. When it comes to a platform like this, where we are all allowed to debate openly, all we have is our honor to ourselves to be true.

I enjoy a good debate, but if you're gonna take me on again, bring the meat A veggie answer ain't tough enough

[Kale]

As a matter of fact, yes. As a kid I followed all the rules. What little stuff I did was more of a personal mistchief not external. Any damage I did was to myself not others.

I know what thats like my friend. I've been a rule follower since i was born, i mean, i have raised some heck, but nothing major, most of the time it become's debates about things. Like Abortion and stuff like that, but that is another topic.

Their words, their knowledge and advice, would be that little voice in the back of one's head telling you right from wrong.

When I was younger (god, I'm 18 and now i feel 106) , my parents always tought me what was real and what isnt. Unlike these new kids that are playing games, I can blur the line so that I become the character and then snap back into the real world with just slight disorientation. these newer gamers are treating their lives more and more like a game.[/quote]

[Kizyr]

It should be noted that restricting video game sales as a law is NOT the same as R-rated movies. That's a flawed comparison. The movie industry is self-regulated and the video game industry should be as well.

Good point... I was hoping you'd be chiming in with some specifics.

After that I'm inclined to agree with you. My general contention was more that video games, as a medium, should be treated the same was as movies, as a medium. Having them treated similarly is a lot more important than what specific laws are in place (or not in place, in this case). So if that means self-regulation, that's all good.

Though, I think that states or municipalities can pass particular laws regarding R-rated movies at least. In Nashville, all theatres require ID for seeing R-rated movies, and there's an 18-and-up limit, not 17-and-up.

Also, a comparison of video games to pornography is moot as well. Pornography is a special exception in any entertainment media and it has special rules. Any type of media can be deemed pornographic, games included. But pornography is not its own media type.

Point taken, but my main idea was more regarding the general public perception of pornography. Ignoring the laws behind it for a minute, most people acknowledge that pornography is unsuitable for minors--so, if a little kid gets into a Playboy stash somewhere in the house, it's a lot more likely blame would be laid against the kid's parents, not against Hugh Hefner. (The case may have been different a couple decades ago, though... but I think the opposition to pornography was because of its inherent nature, not because of its unsuitability for minors)

Similarly, I'd rather violent video games be viewed in the same light. Some games are not suitable for younger audiences, whether because of violence, sex, or both. Either you can direct your irritation towards the video game companies themselves, or accept that some games aren't suitable for some people, and act accordingly.

The link might still be weak. In retrospect, it might be better to figure on violent movies as a more proper analogy. KF

[drumlord]

The trouble is that we're working with a rather odd moral system to begin with. In movies, shooting somebody int he head is not as bad as showing a nipple for a few seconds. Personally, as far as psychological damage I think the gunshot is worse. And as far as imitating, I'd rather my kids go after nipples than go shooting people.

In all fairness, things have gotten much better. People don't freak out any more because in I Dream of Genie you can see her belly button. But it's difficult for a growing industry to develop its rating system, rules, and such when the existing rating systems for other mediums are a little sketchy in their own right. What we DO have for those other industries is laws that work for everybody and unlikely to change.

Re: pornography. I don't necessarily think video games should be viewed in the same light. One potential problem is that many video games could be viewed negatively and penalized simply by the association. But also, some video games are probably worse than most pornography. That is, most pornography consists of consenting adults having sex. I'm sure there are or at least will be video games that have more "damaging" content to children.

Personally, I think the ideal solution is simply for the ESRB to continue to do their jobs. The hot coffee scandal was entirely Rockstar's fault. The studies regarding video games and their damage to the human mind are rather sketchy and clearly had an agenda. They read like a cigarette company-funded study that shows cigarettes don't cause cancer. And no judge has yet to let a jury hear evidence that a video game caused somebody to commit a crime (i.e. "insanity" defense). So really, as long as the ESRB cracks down and enforces the rating system, I think the industry is doing fine. Perhaps they could refine their definitions of M and AO a bit (the main difference is in how long the material lasts for).

It's also worth noting a study was just released that showed it was easier for children to get into an R-rated movie than buy an M-rated video game. These are basically just survey studies, but it's still interesting to see.

[Spirit Icana]

Most video games are much more immersive than movies. I think I'll be sideing more with Jack Thompson if the Revolution succeeds at what it's trying to do, and game violence ensues without any barriers to protect young innocent minds.

Oh, and from the shows I've seen, G4 promotes violence. I wonder if G4tv.com have, or will soon be discussing the problems that concern violence in games. I think it's a much bigger problem than most seem or want to think.

[Kale]

Oh, and from the shows I've seen, G4 promotes violence. I wonder if G4tv.com have, or will soon be discussing the problems that concern violence in games. I think it's a much bigger problem than most seem or want to think.

Um...no offence my friend, but they did cover the problems that delt with violence in videogames. I created this topic right after the speical they ran on it.

Anyway. back to what i wanted to say. I really do agree with drumlord. I think the Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB) should keep up the fantastic work. I did disagree with one game rating, but you know, you cant please everyone now can you.

I also think we should direct some of the irritation to ourselves. after all, are we not the ones that are going out and purchasing games like "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas", and "God Of War"? I'm not saying we shoudent blame the companies, but i think we also deserve some of it too.

I know that being 18, i'm fairly young, but yeah, i just thought i'd get my 2 cents in on this again.