Battle System Poll

[DevNall]

I'm sure some of you know can guess why I'm asking this.

Having finished Dragon Song, I am not as enthralled with the battle system as I was when I first saw the previews for it. (Actually, what probably bothered me most was how slow it seemed.) So, I'm curious: Which battle system do you prefer? Would the new one have been okay if they had fixed a few things (like armor not breaking, the ability to choose your target, and having one mode instead of Normal and Virtue modes)? What about Lunar Legend's battle system, or did the removal of movement around the battle field significantly detract from the experience?

Thoughts, comments, suggestions and random ramblings welcomed (from both new fans and old). If I missed any obvious options, let me know.

[Rune Lai]

The one in TSS because as long as you could take a few hits you were guaranteed to be able to run away from any non-plot related fight. (And oddly enough, that's the Lunar game where I enjoyed fighting enemies the most.)

[Kizyr]

I actually prefer the two modes, Normal and Virtue. I would've liked if you could select which enemy to attack and armor didn't break, though.

Between all of those, TSS's system was still the best. Most relevant use of range and positioning, and battles, while random, were spaced out very well to where they didn't become tedious. KF

[Angelalex242]

I prefered the completes method of fighting, as I find it direct, to the point, and efficient.

[Alunissage]

I don't know that there's enough difference between TSS's and the remakes' systems to list them separately, but evidently other people do. I hardly ever used the Run command so I can't say much on that (except that it was very frustrating in the rest of the games to try to run and just get beat up). TSS did have some awkwardness in movement, to where you could end up with a character just zigzagging up and down behind other party members, unable to get to an enemy. There was also less refinement in range (it was # of moves, with each move being so many tiles; I think Kyle had the most with 4, while Ramus and Luna had 1) and you didn't have much flexibility with positioning at all, nor could you decide where to flee to (unlike defend in later games). So for those reasons the later games' systems were probably better. I remember one game being markedly slow compared to others as far as movement was concerned, but not which was which.

Dragon Song's two modes were kind of fun, but not at the expense of range. I'd give Legend's more credit if the AI were even slightly predictable, i.e., attacking the nearest enemy or even the weakest on Tactic rather than just one at random (when the enemies in back had higher damage). It wasn't as much of a problem as DS's, but still annoying. Legend did at least have the best sprites, which made battles entertaining for a while.

Edit: TSS probably wins for having no battle voices. I could go the rest of my life not hearing "Check this out!" or "Gift of pain!" again. (The voices did make running away in EBC more entertaining, though.)

[Kizyr]

On second thought, a combination of TSS and EB would be nice. EB was excellent in that your positioning and freedom of movement meant for some major strategic decisions. Avoiding Zophar's Hell Wave, for instance, ended up being entirely a matter of strategy (as was predicting and preparing for other bosses' major attacks).

The combination would have the same ability to run in TSS, and the spacing out of encounters as TSS, but with the internal battle dynamics of EB. KF

[Aaron]

I like Dragon Song's battle system I really do...the only qualms I have with it are the lack of a defense button and a lack of 5 characters...and...lol...and not being able to select enemies...if that could be changed I would like to have that kind of a fight system...

[GhaleonOne]

I vote for EB for the reasons Kizyr mentioned. I had the most fun with bosses in that game than any other Lunar game. It allowed for variety too. Specifically Lunn, Borgan and Zophar. Though other fights were fairly strategic as well, like the Fake Althena battle. I would say TSS as well, except you have no way to revive characters in that game.

[Alunissage]

G1, how did you manage that? I'm not seeing EB as an option.

Heh, I forgot about not reviving people in TSS. You did get a bit of HP when you were near-dead some of the time, though.

[segaboy7]

if EB was an option I would have to go with that for the same reasons as G1 and kizyr. As for TSS vs dragon song, TSS wins because Dragon song's lack of enemy targeting takes away about 90% of the stragey in battles.

[GhaleonOne]

I should have said I would have voted for EB. I actually just voted for TSS, as I basically took it for originals as it said "The Original".

[DevNall]

I should have said I would have voted for EB.

I probably should have differentiated, yes, though if you've already voted...

Is everyone talking about EB (the original), not the remakes? I can't remember what they changed in EBC (and I don't have the remake onhand presently).

[Angelalex242]

As I recall, the original had no crests, for starters.

[Alunissage]

Wrong. The Dragon Crests and Althena's Crest are in EB.

[Angelalex242]

They didn't have seperate slots, though, and there was only 5, instead of 30+ of them. They went in the accessory slot.

[SKParasite]

I've only played SSSC/EBC and Lunar Legend so I don't get much option. I vote SSSC/EBC because it is WAY better than Lunar Legend, though I did like the arts guage, I liked being able to move around in battle.

[Alunissage]

They didn't have seperate slots, though, and there was only 5, instead of 30+ of them. They went in the accessory slot.

Not relevant -- all that means is that in EBC there were two extra accessory slots that were restricted in what they could take. The crests themselves had only one trait distinguishing them from other accessories, the ability to combine.

Incidentally, in addition to the four Dragon Crests and the Goddess Crest there were also the Dragon Angel Crests, which defended against the fiends' attacks. At any rate, the crests are obviously not unique to EBC; only their combinations are. And I don't recall the armor or weapons in EBC having effects like poisoning or activating different spells, unlike EB.

[That Other Person]

I want to vote for EB, but I guess I'll just vote for original.

[Dragonmaster Lou]

Voted for the original, although I feel EB was best. The original was pretty good, though, defintely better than the remakes. The remakes felt like they tweaked the battle system in bad ways, IMHO.

What I liked about EB was that weapon skills became a "first class" spell group and not just something they gave to magical burnouts like Kyle and Laike. That and Poe Sword was ridiculously powerful and so cheap (and I was such a Poe Sword fan boy that I often gave Hiro the Snake Ring...). It was also great in that you could kill nearly any peon in one blow with it -- very useful when some nasty monster is about to uncork a massive whole-party damage spell. I hated how they Nerfed Poe Sword in EBC (although Triple Sword wasn't half bad...).

While I didn't like EB's Dragon Magic at first, it later grew on me. The old dragon spells were just total nukes, and, well, by the time you reached the end of the game, you weren't using Dragon Bolt anymore -- it was Holy Light or nothing (okay, maybe Dragon Quake if you wanted XP against peons). The fact that each Dragon Spell in EB did something unique actually made them all worth while, although I thought the spell costs were way too high. White Dragon Protect was, of course, insanely useful. I also got a lot of mileage by having Jean use Blue Dragon Vigor and wailing away. Black Dragon Shield, other than having a deceptive name, wasn't all that useful most of the time, but I could definitely see it used in certain emergency situations. Red Dragon Anger was pretty much only useful in giving AE attack magic to someone who normally wouldn't have any. Althena's Love was slightly more useful as it was an uber-healing spell, but usually Ronfar's final group heal was more than enough, thus relegating it to backup healer status.

Personally, when they changed the Dragon spells in SSSC/EBC, I personally felt they probably should've changed Red Dragon Anger to be the heal spell and left Blue Dragon Vigor alone. Then again, maybe the reason they changed BD Vigor was because its effects weren't obvious at first glance and a lot of people thought it did nothing...

[Angelalex242]

If they were gonna change anything, change Black Dragon Grief.

Completely useless spell, that one. Unless you LIKE not getting any XP...