Why did they dumb this great SCD game down?
- lunarfiend
- Meryod Yokel
- Posts: 3
- jedwabna poszewka na poduszkę 70x80
- Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 4:55 pm
Why did they dumb this great SCD game down?
I bought this game when it 1st came out for the SCD. Then time went by and this remake comes out I play it beat it and its good but imho it should not be called lunar TSS it should be like here is lunar for people who don't like rpgs
Alex is supposed to have fire magic no sword skills. And the mazes in the remake are nonexistant
The original was a much better game in every aspect i think im going to sell the PS1 version since i still have my SCD
I honestly can't understand why they would butcher this game its still good don't get me wrong but if they made it a direct port with updated audio and video it would be 1000 times better
Alex is supposed to have fire magic no sword skills. And the mazes in the remake are nonexistant
The original was a much better game in every aspect i think im going to sell the PS1 version since i still have my SCD
I honestly can't understand why they would butcher this game its still good don't get me wrong but if they made it a direct port with updated audio and video it would be 1000 times better
- Dark_Fairy
- White Dragon Knight
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:12 pm
I liked both versions of the game. The psx version had more talking and cutsenes. The segacd had better mazes and a more interesting Vane.
I liked the fact that Alex had fire magic in the segacd...but I didn't like the fact that half the time I didn't know what the items or spells did on the segacd version. In the psx version you can actually tell what all the items and spells do. Oh, I also liked Ghaleon's little demon form thing in the segacd version. They should have keep that in the psx version along with Alex's magic!
Over all they both games had their ups and downs. I liked the psx version a tad better though.
I liked the fact that Alex had fire magic in the segacd...but I didn't like the fact that half the time I didn't know what the items or spells did on the segacd version. In the psx version you can actually tell what all the items and spells do. Oh, I also liked Ghaleon's little demon form thing in the segacd version. They should have keep that in the psx version along with Alex's magic!
Over all they both games had their ups and downs. I liked the psx version a tad better though.
- ilovemyguitar
- Legendary Hero
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 12:00 am
I think both versions are good, but they both have their weaknesses.
The original obviously suffers from having crude (by today's standards) gameplay. Spell and item effects are a mystery until used (and occasionally remain a mystery still after used), and the AI is pretty much nonexistant.
However, the PSX suffers from having a retooled story that, in some instances, would have been better left un-retooled. If Quark tells Ghaleon that Luna is the girl born when Althena became human, why does Ghaleon continue to kidnap singers? And yeah, I get that they wanted Ghaleon to be a more sympathetic character, but I personally liked him better as a dragon-murdering, village-enslaving, full-on demented psychopath.
The original obviously suffers from having crude (by today's standards) gameplay. Spell and item effects are a mystery until used (and occasionally remain a mystery still after used), and the AI is pretty much nonexistant.
However, the PSX suffers from having a retooled story that, in some instances, would have been better left un-retooled. If Quark tells Ghaleon that Luna is the girl born when Althena became human, why does Ghaleon continue to kidnap singers? And yeah, I get that they wanted Ghaleon to be a more sympathetic character, but I personally liked him better as a dragon-murdering, village-enslaving, full-on demented psychopath.
- lunarfiend
- Meryod Yokel
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 4:55 pm
agree somewhat
I just think the game was more solid in the SCD version
The entire story made sense ghaleon kills not enslaves the dragons
luna leaves the party when they board the hispanola
magic plays a much bigger role in the game/world which plays into story of what dyne and althena did to make the humans more self reliant
as for gameplay once you've played it through once thats not an issue I know just about every spell/item's effect by heart now after owning this game for what 11 or 12 years now lol
The one change i did like in the PSX version was that every dragon magic was diffrent not just diffrent attacks
The mazes are my main gripe with the PSX they are so simple (non existant imho) its to the point where i think they are trying to insult our intelligence
Forgive me if I seem overzealous heck im still pissed about when I heard nintendo's reason for not releasing the FE series here in the states
they thought american youth weren't intelligent enough for them
The entire story made sense ghaleon kills not enslaves the dragons
luna leaves the party when they board the hispanola
magic plays a much bigger role in the game/world which plays into story of what dyne and althena did to make the humans more self reliant
as for gameplay once you've played it through once thats not an issue I know just about every spell/item's effect by heart now after owning this game for what 11 or 12 years now lol
The one change i did like in the PSX version was that every dragon magic was diffrent not just diffrent attacks
The mazes are my main gripe with the PSX they are so simple (non existant imho) its to the point where i think they are trying to insult our intelligence
Forgive me if I seem overzealous heck im still pissed about when I heard nintendo's reason for not releasing the FE series here in the states
they thought american youth weren't intelligent enough for them
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- Red Dragon Priest
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 2:41 pm
- Location: Gonna find a Hacker!
FE...?...you mean Fire Emblem?...( Dude, the avatar's Roy.) If that's what you mean, then well...The Sacred Stones is coming soon...then the one for gamecube...and probably the sequel to the first one that came out...and.....*Sigh*...Just have to wait an eternity for all of them to be released...Though, it depends on where you live...
BTW, I thought the PSX version of SSS was better.
BTW, I thought the PSX version of SSS was better.
Okay, Hacker, listen up. I am tired of your fake assumptions! What is your problem?! Do you just like to mess with 14 year olds, who KNOW they don't lie to people at a site they consider HOME?!! PM ME NOW!
- Alunissage
- Goddess
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:31 am
Lunarfiend, I hope you're not assuming that SSSC was dumbed down for an American audience, since the remakes were made for Japan.
The simplification seems to be more part of a general gaming trend. I do prefer TSS and miss lots of points about it (I can't imagine why the soundtrack would need to be updated; the only thing I can think of changing in it would be the music in Ghaleon's palace) but I don't think it's productive to dwell on everything about the remake that you didn't like rather than just enjoying the changes that were good, like the character portraits, animation, visible enemies (took me a while to get used to them but the TSS dungeons have aggravating numbers of random battles now) and larger amount of dialogue. While I was bothered by the plothole introduced in keeping Luna with your party, I also appreciated getting to see more of Luna as a character -- in the original, the only one of the regular party she meets besides Alex is Nash, and him only briefly.
The simplification seems to be more part of a general gaming trend. I do prefer TSS and miss lots of points about it (I can't imagine why the soundtrack would need to be updated; the only thing I can think of changing in it would be the music in Ghaleon's palace) but I don't think it's productive to dwell on everything about the remake that you didn't like rather than just enjoying the changes that were good, like the character portraits, animation, visible enemies (took me a while to get used to them but the TSS dungeons have aggravating numbers of random battles now) and larger amount of dialogue. While I was bothered by the plothole introduced in keeping Luna with your party, I also appreciated getting to see more of Luna as a character -- in the original, the only one of the regular party she meets besides Alex is Nash, and him only briefly.
Huh? In context you seem to be referring to TSS, but Dyne's and Althena's actions had nothing at all to do with making humans more self-reliant in that game. Dyne gave up being a dragonmaster in the process of sealing off the Black Dragon, and Althena was just routinely incarnating when she was captured by Ghaleon.magic plays a much bigger role in the game/world which plays into story of what dyne and althena did to make the humans more self reliant
I prefer SSS in just about every way, from story and characterization to gameplay mechanics--Ghaleon being self-righteous and not changing into a demon for no reason, Luna's existence actually having a significant purpose, the sword-wielding Dragonmaster actually being a swordsman, etc. I agree that the dungeons were simplified rather harshly, though.
I apprecaite SSSC and TSS in a lot of different ways. TSS was my favorite Lunar game and probably will always remain so, but SSSC really did aid in character development and the anime scenes were simply breathtaking.
I was very disappointed in the lack of a variety of magic in SSSC. I practically threw the control at the TV screen when I realized Alex wasn't going to have his fire magic and Mia's spells were (oh so) simple and cliche in contrast to her crazy powerful magic in TSS (and Nash even used to be semi-useful!). I always got the impression that Lunar was a place infused with magic and that the people of Lunar depended on it. And in SSSC....not so much. Of course (Aluin I know can correct me here if I'm wrong) in SSSC I don't think they emphasized magic as much as they did in TSS. Oh, and I promptly turned off the game and walked away in rage when I realized the Dragon Spells were going to be the useless (minus the Dragon Healing and White Dragon Protect) spells previously seen in EB. I don't think I even equiped any of the crests in EB because I missed the offensive based Dragon Spells so much.
Another irksome detail that I thought they should of changed between the two was the way in which the whole Dyne/Althena thing went down. The story of the insane Black Dragon and how Dyne had to use all his magic and practically died trying to seal him was so exciting and mysterious. In SSSC the story of the Four Heroes seemed less adventurous and less internesting. Althena wants to be human for good because she's tired of being a goddess...um, okay? That's cool...I guess. (I know that isn't the full reason, I'm being sarcastic here ) I had a huge attachment to Ghaleon in TSS, he was pissed because that stupid goddess whom he and his friends served had them go on a task which almost killed one or more of them. And she's the goddess of all Lunar, but she can't do it herself. I mean I almost sympathized with Ghaleon...it was almost like a rebellion against authority in TSS (at least that's the feeling I got). In SSSC he's more power hungry, completely insane, and significantly a more boring character IMO.
Splitting up Xenobia into three different characters also did not slide with me too well. I did end up loving Phacia, but Royce really lacked character compared to how well all the other characters were mapped out in SSSC.
I also thought the music in TSS was 100 times better.
I missed Alex's harp, screw the stupid Orcarina.
HOWEVER. I LOVED the fact that the Goddess Tower was actually Althena's Fortress and used to bring the surviving people from the Blue Star to Lunar in the past when that big migration took place. That was an amazing addition to the storyline and really beefed up the interest in Lunar's history for me. And probably the most amazing animation cutscene in all the Lunar games. It also made more since to me, since in EB/EBC the Goddess Tower is missing.
The face of between Vane and the Grindary was another great change.
Character development was way, way better in SSSC (Minus Xenobia and Ghaleon).
But, still...after all that said SSSC is my second least favorite Lunar that I have played.
It goes like this:
TSS
EB
EBC
SSSC
LL
I was very disappointed in the lack of a variety of magic in SSSC. I practically threw the control at the TV screen when I realized Alex wasn't going to have his fire magic and Mia's spells were (oh so) simple and cliche in contrast to her crazy powerful magic in TSS (and Nash even used to be semi-useful!). I always got the impression that Lunar was a place infused with magic and that the people of Lunar depended on it. And in SSSC....not so much. Of course (Aluin I know can correct me here if I'm wrong) in SSSC I don't think they emphasized magic as much as they did in TSS. Oh, and I promptly turned off the game and walked away in rage when I realized the Dragon Spells were going to be the useless (minus the Dragon Healing and White Dragon Protect) spells previously seen in EB. I don't think I even equiped any of the crests in EB because I missed the offensive based Dragon Spells so much.
Another irksome detail that I thought they should of changed between the two was the way in which the whole Dyne/Althena thing went down. The story of the insane Black Dragon and how Dyne had to use all his magic and practically died trying to seal him was so exciting and mysterious. In SSSC the story of the Four Heroes seemed less adventurous and less internesting. Althena wants to be human for good because she's tired of being a goddess...um, okay? That's cool...I guess. (I know that isn't the full reason, I'm being sarcastic here ) I had a huge attachment to Ghaleon in TSS, he was pissed because that stupid goddess whom he and his friends served had them go on a task which almost killed one or more of them. And she's the goddess of all Lunar, but she can't do it herself. I mean I almost sympathized with Ghaleon...it was almost like a rebellion against authority in TSS (at least that's the feeling I got). In SSSC he's more power hungry, completely insane, and significantly a more boring character IMO.
Splitting up Xenobia into three different characters also did not slide with me too well. I did end up loving Phacia, but Royce really lacked character compared to how well all the other characters were mapped out in SSSC.
I also thought the music in TSS was 100 times better.
I missed Alex's harp, screw the stupid Orcarina.
HOWEVER. I LOVED the fact that the Goddess Tower was actually Althena's Fortress and used to bring the surviving people from the Blue Star to Lunar in the past when that big migration took place. That was an amazing addition to the storyline and really beefed up the interest in Lunar's history for me. And probably the most amazing animation cutscene in all the Lunar games. It also made more since to me, since in EB/EBC the Goddess Tower is missing.
The face of between Vane and the Grindary was another great change.
Character development was way, way better in SSSC (Minus Xenobia and Ghaleon).
But, still...after all that said SSSC is my second least favorite Lunar that I have played.
It goes like this:
TSS
EB
EBC
SSSC
LL
Lunar: Dragon Song sucked
Nicole Reannin Elgan-Moore
We will always remember...
Nicole Reannin Elgan-Moore
We will always remember...
- Alunissage
- Goddess
- Posts: 7362
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:31 am
I would agree that magic is less emphasized in this game. In terms of gameplay, this game has the smallest number of spells of any of them (excluding MS/WS which I don't know much about). I gather they had to simplify the spells for EB because of the magic levelling system (which IS cool) and then in SSSC they took it too far and further limited the number of spells. I suppose that's why Alex says, after going through the cave of trial, that he doesn't want to study magic in SSSC, since he only has room for four sword spells plus the dragon ones. I would say that technically Nash's spells were more useful in SSSC since he has status spells as well as the thunder ones, but I can only think of one place that I used them (which was also the only place that Dragon Grief was useful).
Other things that I think contributed to the feeling that TSS had more magic than SSSC are the little shrines and magic rocks scattered around (instead of statues in towns), the variety of spells that Alex, Mia, and Jessica had, and the worship of Althena as represented in the temples and tower being mystical and austere rather than a knockoff of Christianity with a dash of sci-fi thrown in with the Goddess Tower. Even though I do think it's the coolest animation in any of the games. And, of course, the touches like Alex's magic being unlocked, the spell cast by the Lyton magician to make the Blue Dragon cave accessible, the dragon ring flashing as you go into the Crystal Tower (for some reason I really liked that), and so on added to the atmosphere of Lunar being a world of magic, not always explainable. SSSC's Lunar wasn't nearly so mysterious.
Other things that I think contributed to the feeling that TSS had more magic than SSSC are the little shrines and magic rocks scattered around (instead of statues in towns), the variety of spells that Alex, Mia, and Jessica had, and the worship of Althena as represented in the temples and tower being mystical and austere rather than a knockoff of Christianity with a dash of sci-fi thrown in with the Goddess Tower. Even though I do think it's the coolest animation in any of the games. And, of course, the touches like Alex's magic being unlocked, the spell cast by the Lyton magician to make the Blue Dragon cave accessible, the dragon ring flashing as you go into the Crystal Tower (for some reason I really liked that), and so on added to the atmosphere of Lunar being a world of magic, not always explainable. SSSC's Lunar wasn't nearly so mysterious.
TSS was my favorite of all the games for the same reasons as Allunisage. I like the word mysterious. But it was also more serious. People were actually killed and for some reason that bit of realism is lost in the new version where the creators became scared to kill anyone. The music also played a big part in this. As a biased composer I feel music plays huge roles in atmosphere of a game. Vane's old music made it feel like a very mysterious and serious place but the new game makes it sound easygoing and relaxed. The overworld music in the old game (my favorite Lunar song) was way better then this new happy go lucky melody.
But it seems to be the case most of the time that which ever you played first was your favorite. I played the old ones first so I like them more. Don't get me going on the EB's too. The new one was a joke.
But it seems to be the case most of the time that which ever you played first was your favorite. I played the old ones first so I like them more. Don't get me going on the EB's too. The new one was a joke.
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