Lunar Threads

Well I apologize for the fact that I post such a controversial topic while being a newbie, hope the discussion does not get any intense at all. It is a strange question to ask, but what if you find that your girlfriend is infact a goddess? What are you supposed to do if the only way for you two to be together is that she gives up being a deity? Here is what I believe. If the guy only wants to marry his girlfriend in future and form a family, he may as well do what Alex chose. However, if he truly loves his gf as much as what Alex's love for Luna is supposed to be(as depicted in Lunar Silver star), it may be his best interest to let her go and live as a goddess forever. Giving up being a goddess definitely makes the guy happy, and it can make the girl happy too, but making someone happy does not necessarily mean doing the best for him/her. Parents can make their kids happy by buying whatever they desire, but at times it is not what is best for their children. The same applies here.

So Alex brought Luna back to human form and caused the demise of Goddess Althena, what happened next? They both died in less than 100 years and a thousand years later, the Dark God returned and almost destroyed Lunar! Moreover, love is impulsive, it only guarantees short-term happiness so we never know what may happen 20 or 30 years later(if you've played Golden Sun Dark Dawn, you'd understand it better after knowing Issac and Jenna would not live together anymore even after their son turned 17). The Goddess, on the other hand, exists for eternity and will always be watching over the planet for her people. I firmly believe that Luna is better off living as Goddess Althena than staying by Alex's side till their death. Following her death, Luna/Althena is nothing.

The conclusion is obvious now, Alex's love for Luna is selfish 'cause he should've stayed away from her and let Luna serve as Goddess after defeating Ghaleon. This is not much different from a desperate husband telling his wife not to pursue jobs far away from their hometown just because it would separate them apart. If you truly love someone, make the best decision for him/her instead of for yourself.

The trouble that I have with this is that you focus so much on Alex's motivations, when Luna wanted to be human. It takes Alex playing on his musical instrument in order to remind her of her humanity, after which she won't strike Alex with her bolts of power. When she protests, it is out of concern for the danger to Alex. When Alex succeeds, she looks happy to be human again.

Then, Luna chose to "remain human." Alex didn't banish her from being a goddess for her lifetime. It was, ultimately, Luna's choice, which is why she appears to Lucia in a hologram, aged and unrejuvenated, saying that she renounced her immortality for love.

Nor was this a selfish decision. Indeed, staying in that seat of power would have been selfish, because humans were coming to depend on Althena rather than standing for themselves. By renouncing her position, humans would have to help themselves with their own goodness. Indeed, that's the very reason that Althena gives to Luna:

The first two-thirds of Althena's speech wrote:Lucia, the Goddess Althena does not exist any longer in this world.
Let me explain so you will understand. My task as Althena was to lead
the humans and control the power of the Silver Star, so that one day,
when the Blue Star was reborn, the humans could return and we could
begin anew. However, Lucia, I came to know while I existed, the
humans were not truly happy. They lacked a sense of self-reliance, a
sense of pride in their accomplishments. They had become too dependant
on me. When I last came to this world in human form, something quite
marvelous happened. I returned to this world, as I had many times
previously; however, this time I was born into the form of a girl
named Luna. As Luna, I grew and fell in love with a Dragonmaster named
Alex. It was to be my final rebirth. You see, I chose to remain a
human, surrendering my immortality for love. And now, Lucia, you have
come seeking my aid...and yet, I no longer exist. But what you must
know is that you hold the power to accomplish your mission. It has
been near you since you arrived. Humans possess the remarkable ability
to rise up in adversity and overcome obstacles to make the future
bright for their offspring.

So Alex's concern is not selfish, at least not in a bad way. He wants to be with Luna again, but he also wants Luna to enjoy a human life, implying that humanity has value too. At the same time, his gestures, like holding out his hand to her, indicate that it's her choice to value humanity as he does, to be human, to leave her power to humans.

The problem with this supposition is that you're basis stems from the idea that this is solely Alex's decision to make. Is Alex being selfish? Well yeah, he loves Luna and wants to be with her. The vast majority of love is selfish. However, you have to take into account that Luna, as Althena, must also be selfish because she chose to give up her divinity to be with Alex again. She loved him just as much and chose to become mortal of her own accord. If she had really wanted to stay a Goddess it was well within her power.

Conclusion: They're both selfish because as with most cases of love, love is a selfish feeling where we want to be with one person exclusively, even if it isn't what's "best" for everyone around them.

Lord Yggdrasill, you are forgetting (or missed) some other parts of the story where they talk about the Goddess.

In the case of Lunar Silver Star Story, it is NO good for humans to live with an incarnation of the Goddess. They would depend on her everyday, and their natural human will becomes weak. Then after that, what if the Goddess vanishes? What if the Dark God comes and somehow captures the Goddess similar to how he did to Lucia?
It seems Zophar was powerful enough to do something like that. Humans would be left with nothing!
Althena wants to see humans become independent and powerful on their own, and prosper.
She believes humans can do it.
Spoiler: Living without a Goddess is exactly why they could beat Zophar.

Who knows... maybe humans would have become angry at her decision of living as a Goddess... cause then they would feel she doesn't trust humanity can do it alone. See the irony?

However, i can't remember very well anymore, but I THINK that Lunar Dragon Song ended in something having to do with this topic.
 It is possible that in that game, Lunar DS, the Goddess lived with humans without losing her power, but i'll come back and edit this after I make sure.

Maybe in a non existent Lunar 3, something like a non selfish hero would let the Goddess live as a Goddess! Thats enough plot to make a new game. Congrats Lord Yggdrasill!

Love is a two way street, and have you ever seen what happens to mortals who try to boss a god or goddess around? If it were only Alex making the call that Luna should return to being huma again and it wasn't her wish she'd have fried him. No, she relented because it was what she wanted, too.

Well I do know it was what Luna wanted too, but what a person wants may not be what is the best for himself/herself. This is why parents send kids to schools instead of letting them stay at home playing Xbox360 and DS all the time. Like I pointed out before, love is impulsive and Luna would eventually regret her decision when both Alex and she grew old. If Alex was mature enough and did love Luna selflessly, he should've realized that Luna would not be having a better future with him than being a goddess. Once Luna realized that she'd be better off as a goddess than with Alex, it would be too late.

Also a quick note, Hiro and his friends could not have defeated Zophar without Lucia, whom with Althena's power is pretty much a goddess equally as powerful as Althena herself. The world of Lunar does need a god, or goddess. It is not a good idea to compare Lunar's situation to real life, in which we live without being protected by a god/goddess. Our world does not have deity like Zophar, Lunar has, its a mythical world anyway.

Like I pointed out before, love is impulsive and Luna would eventually regret her decision when both Alex and she grew old.

When Luna appears to Hiro and co., she appears as an aged woman. She looks, sounds, and describes her experience as happy. There is no reason to infer that there is regret at all. Furthermore, "Love is impulsive" is invalid; not all love is impulsive. In fact, one beautiful thing I find about Luna and Alex's love is that it developed over their entire lifetime. They loved each other as close friends with a strong sense of devotion. Heck, the song to raise the Blue Dragon's lair from the water must be sung by true lovers, which Alex and Luna are; the timid obliviousness of Mia and Nash as well as the hot/cold passion of Jessica and Kyle do not compare.

Also a quick note, Hiro and his friends could not have defeated Zophar without Lucia, whom with Althena's power is pretty much a goddess equally as powerful as Althena herself.

On the contrary, the narrative discounts this. When Lucia tries to wield Althena's power, the danger alluded to is the same danger that Althena enacted - the destruction of the Silver Star. Lucia knows this and hesitates. Then Zophar tries to attack the Dragonship Destiny, and Lucia blocks the blast, only to get captured. Despite Lunar being bereft of Althena's power, Hiro and the others find within themselves the power of hope and human resilience necessary to fight through Zophar and defeat his two forms. Then Hiro and Lucia, together, put a final end to Zophar. Quite simply, they rescued Lucia; Lucia needed them.

Luna NEVER regretted her decision. If you paid attention to the games at all, you'd know that.

Remember how in the ending of Lunar: SSC, that Luna's/Althena's power was sucking the life of Lunar with the fortress? So if Alex hadn't stepped in and stopped it, I guess everything would've been gone. And since that's pretty much a repeat of Althena losing her power with Dyne, it couldn't be helped.
That along with she keeps saying "yeah, love is the bomb. I totally stayed because I loved Alex. Dig it."

In Lunar love is always for the best, and it even trumps benign absolute power. Althena doesn't have to feel bad about giving up her powers because people are good, resourceful, and caring, and love is worth it. (And depending on the continuity she's been an absentee landlady for centuries.) This scenario is waaay over-optimistic, but that's Lunar.

Arlia wrote:"yeah, love is the bomb. I totally stayed because I loved Alex. Dig it."

lolol. Rawk.

LunarRaptor wrote:Luna NEVER regretted her decision. If you paid attention to the games at all, you'd know that.

Indeed she never regretted her decision, but this does not indicate that what she chose was the best for herself. It only explains that she never managed to become rational even till the very end. Still as impulsive as she was young when it comes to her love for Alex, which is bad.

Heh, then I'm afraid you're playing devil's advocate, Lord Yggdrasill. =p

Okay then. You're projecting onto the game your own values then. Which is fine - god knows we all do it at least a bit, but what you claim is now contrary to all that the material within the Lunar universe holds to be true: that it wasn't impulsive, that it was true love, that true love is always a good choice.

So it's fine if you believe that, but it's not a good argument, since it's essentially you saying that you disagree with the game.

Arlia wrote:Heh, then I'm afraid you're playing devil's advocate, Lord Yggdrasill. =p

haha guess I am acting no different from Ghaleon, aint I? But yeah, seriously speaking the world of Lunar is indeed better off with a goddess. XD

Sonic# wrote:Okay then. You're projecting onto the game your own values then. Which is fine - god knows we all do it at least a bit, but what you claim is now contrary to all that the material within the Lunar universe holds to be true: that it wasn't impulsive, that it was true love, that true love is always a good choice.

So it's fine if you believe that, but it's not a good argument, since it's essentially you saying that you disagree with the game.

Calm down. 0_o I only meant everyone has presented their ideas, not even that my own thoughts had any special significance. "Playing Devil's Advocate" is arguing for the sake of arguing, or talking for the sake of talking. It doesn't really have anything to do with a devil of any sort.
I'm sorry if you took it wrong. =(

But Ygg seems to understand my joke, heh.

Yeah, I was just about to say that if Ghaleon wasn't a 'zap 'em all and take the power myself' kinda guy, that's exactly the argument he'd have made to Alex had he lived that long.

On the other shoulder, of course, would be Dyne/Laike going 'It's totally worth it, man, do it!'

Arlia, I apologize. That was directed at Yggdrasil, and I was tired enough to not quote his text.

Sonic# wrote:Arlia, I apologize. That was directed at Yggdrasil, and I was tired enough to not quote his text.

Hahaha, that's funny. =p Sorry for misunderstanding.

Lord Yggdrasill wrote:So Alex brought Luna back to human form and caused the demise of Goddess Althena, what happened next? They both died in less than 100 years and a thousand years later, the Dark God returned and almost destroyed Lunar! Moreover, love is impulsive, it only guarantees short-term happiness so we never know what may happen 20 or 30 years later(if you've played Golden Sun Dark Dawn, you'd understand it better after knowing Issac and Jenna would not live together anymore even after their son turned 17). The Goddess, on the other hand, exists for eternity and will always be watching over the planet for her people. I firmly believe that Luna is better off living as Goddess Althena than staying by Alex's side till their death. Following her death, Luna/Althena is nothing.

The conclusion is obvious now, Alex's love for Luna is selfish 'cause he should've stayed away from her and let Luna serve as Goddess after defeating Ghaleon. This is not much different from a desperate husband telling his wife not to pursue jobs far away from their hometown just because it would separate them apart. If you truly love someone, make the best decision for him/her instead of for yourself.

I think I'm gonna have to agree to a certain extent. I think that this was Ghaleon's whole argument. But the problem lies with Luna/Althena. I think Alunssiage said it best when that person described Luna as not a full deity in the same way we would regard God from a real religious text.

I the parallel given was think of the Greek gods with their flaws and imperfections. Althena is very similar. I mean what kind of God reincarnates and needs 4 dragons and dragonmaster to protect her from her own creation? I know Zophar is another story but I think my point comes across.

Also it always seemed to me that when looking back Luna always knew about Lucia. Or at the very least remembered. I think that maybe by her falling in love with Alex she kinda passed the torch to Lucia.

Where we see Lucia not really giving up her immortality but still being capable of being murdered/cursed to death. I've always wondered what happened to Lucia and Hiro...oh well Lunar 3 should help me with that....I'M STILL WAITING.

TL;DR

I agree to a point. I always sympathized a bit with Ghaleon.