Lunar Threads

Killing is a sin and you need to repent. You can't say "Okay, I'm going to gravely injure myself and then pretend to be sorry for it. This premeditated act will trick God into letting me into heaven."

So why didn't you bring a gun with you to church and shoot yourself in the temple after you were saved and baptized? Do you think you'd enjoy Earth more than Heaven? Or have you altered your views due to having friends that have committed suicide?

Actually, no, I've held that view years prior to anyone I know who has committed suicide (which amounts to one person, actually) And I think you're holding too much to the idea that if you haven't repented of every single sin you've ever committed the moment you die, that you're screwed. You're setting too much stock by the last moment of life. In fact, I honestly think your idea that one sin at the end of your life condemning you to hell cheapens the entire idea of Christ's redemption.

GhaleonOne wrote:

Killing is a sin and you need to repent. You can't say "Okay, I'm going to gravely injure myself and then pretend to be sorry for it. This premeditated act will trick God into letting me into heaven."

So why didn't you bring a gun with you to church and shoot yourself in the temple after you were saved and baptized? Do you think you'd enjoy Earth more than Heaven? Or have you altered your views due to having friends that have committed suicide?

Actually, no, I've held that view years prior to anyone I know who has committed suicide (which amounts to one person, actually) And I think you're holding too much to the idea that if you haven't repented of every single sin you've ever committed the moment you die, that you're screwed. You're setting too much stock by the last moment of life. In fact, I honestly think your idea that one sin at the end of your life condemning you to hell cheapens the entire idea of Christ's redemption.

God puts us here for a reason. Killing yourself is the same as spitting in God's face.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:

GhaleonOne wrote:

Killing is a sin and you need to repent. You can't say "Okay, I'm going to gravely injure myself and then pretend to be sorry for it. This premeditated act will trick God into letting me into heaven."

So why didn't you bring a gun with you to church and shoot yourself in the temple after you were saved and baptized? Do you think you'd enjoy Earth more than Heaven? Or have you altered your views due to having friends that have committed suicide?

Actually, no, I've held that view years prior to anyone I know who has committed suicide (which amounts to one person, actually) And I think you're holding too much to the idea that if you haven't repented of every single sin you've ever committed the moment you die, that you're screwed. You're setting too much stock by the last moment of life. In fact, I honestly think your idea that one sin at the end of your life condemning you to hell cheapens the entire idea of Christ's redemption.

God puts us here for a reason. Killing yourself is the same as spitting in God's face.

You're still not getting the point. I never said suicide wasn't wrong. I do believe that it IS a sin. But so are a LOT of things. You're trying to justify one sin as larger than another, and that goes against most Christian theological teachings about grace. (see Paul's Letter to the Romans)

I knew not to come here high.

Putting us here was pretty much one of the MAIN things he did. Us just throwing that away can't be acceptable. When it's your time, it's your time. Unless you choose it like a wuss.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:

PottleElf wrote:Suicidal ideation is a common symptom for a lot of severe mental illnesses and conditions. (It's also a side-effect of certain drugs.)

I'm focusing on the people who get sad over things that happen to pretty much everybody and then kill themselves. Screw 'em. ... I also know people with several mental illnesses at once and they aren't going to kill themselves. MPD, SAD, depression and Bipolar in one for instance.

I've treated people with the flu before who didn't exhibit several of the regular symptoms of it. "Common symptom" does not mean universal symptom. You can find people with severe depression who are not suicidal--you can't extrapolate from there to say that most people with depression do not have suicidal tendencies. But, I'll take you at your word that you're only focusing on people who are in control of their mental faculties when they commit suicide; besides, you seem more interested in a moral argument, not a medical one. In which case, there's no reason to focus on this line of argumentation.

Right you are.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I knew not to come here high.

This explains a lot.

PottleElf wrote:

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:

PottleElf wrote:Suicidal ideation is a common symptom for a lot of severe mental illnesses and conditions. (It's also a side-effect of certain drugs.)

I'm focusing on the people who get sad over things that happen to pretty much everybody and then kill themselves. Screw 'em. ... I also know people with several mental illnesses at once and they aren't going to kill themselves. MPD, SAD, depression and Bipolar in one for instance.

I've treated people with the flu before who didn't exhibit several of the regular symptoms of it. "Common symptom" does not mean universal symptom. You can find people with severe depression who are not suicidal--you can't extrapolate from there to say that most people with depression do not have suicidal tendencies. But, I'll take you at your word that you're only focusing on people who are in control of their mental faculties when they commit suicide; besides, you seem more interested in a moral argument, not a medical one. In which case, there's no reason to focus on this line of argumentation.

<3 Finally someone who seems like they understand

Shin Otaku III wrote:

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I knew not to come here high.

This explains a lot.

That's the first time that's happened. I generally play a video game to enjoy my buzz rather than being online.

man I love the hypocrisy.

Aaron wrote:man I love the hypocrisy.

Elaborate please.

Drug use is okay, suicide is awful.

Aaron wrote:Drug use is okay, suicide is awful.

Are you God damn retarded? The two aren't comparable. Explain how it's hypocrisy.

I'm saying: If you're gonna preach something. Don't be that hypocritical. Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.

When it comes to religion and following what God says, if you say that God doesn't like suicide. And then tell everyone that you are high. That makes you look like an idiot. And in my mind someone like you shouldn't be representing what God says.

Drug use is a sin.

That is what I mean by hypocrisy.

Christ was the only one to ever be sinless. Ending your own life is the epitome of idiocy.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:Christ was the only one to ever be sinless. Ending your own life is the epitome of idiocy.

And yet you've still not given anything more than "suicide is stupid you go to hell". You're sounding like you adhere to Christian principles. If so, quote a Bible verse. Quote a respected Christian theologian on the subject.

I'm gonna help BG out a bit...

...You are not your own, you were bought at a price... Corinthians 6:19-20

If you take that literally then suicide is a sin because you are literally stealing something that doesn't belong to you. Your life, or the end there of.

Sure, but it says nothing about sending you to hell for suicide. That's the point I'm making. I'm not arguing that suicide is right or good. Not even close. I'm just trying to make him see the fact that from a Christian perspective (which he seems to adhere to as well) there is good reason to believe that suicide does not necessarily send you to hell.

Well, I think the best answer is that it's up to God.

The best example I can think of that supports BG's view is Judas. He hung himself and went to hell. But then, King Saul also committed suicide. Yet, it is implied that he went to heaven.

So, realistically I can see it being a case by case thing. Of course, I don't want to speak for God so...take that with a grain of salt. I have no way of confirming what I just said.

That's a good question though... did Judas even go to hell? There are some fairly well respected theologians that would argue that even. Think of the context of Judas' betrayal. He was generally regarded as a zealot and possibly one of the sicarii (a group of assassins intent on driving the Romans out in the style of the Maccabbi's from 2 centuries earlier). The zealots wanted Rome expelled, and when someone came along claiming to be the Messiah, Judas likely would have been hoping he'd be the one to drive out the Roman oppression and restore Israel. Many think he betrayed Jesus not for the money, but to force Jesus to prove he was the Messiah and drive the Romans out. He just had a different idea of what the Messiah was than Jesus himself did. And the Bible does say that Judas realized his betrayal, returned the silver and committed suicide over it. Nowhere does it say he was condemned for eternity for it. Though it doesn't say he wasn't either.

And I'm getting way off topic of the original discussion with all this, so I'd rather just leave it at that.