Lunar Threads

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070515/ap_ ... ry_falwell

Saw that on Yahoo a minute ago.

That must be why the flags around here were at half-mast today. I was wondering what happened. KF

Kizyr wrote:That must be why the flags around here were at half-mast today. I was wondering what happened. KF

Apparently the flags are at half-mast because it's Peace Officers Memorial Day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Offi ... morial_Day

I was about to say, that'd be curious if flags were half-mast for his death. Even as a Christian, I didn't follow the guy a great deal, but generally flags being flown at half-mast for a death would be reserved for senior officials in the government or military I would think.

I heard about it while I was driving today. I disagreed with his positions a lot, but I still was saddened by hearing it. He was a good man.

Imperial Knight wrote:

Kizyr wrote:That must be why the flags around here were at half-mast today. I was wondering what happened. KF

Apparently the flags are at half-mast because it's Peace Officers Memorial Day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Offi ... morial_Day

Somehow, that's a relief. I was thinking that, say, if Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan passed away, I doubt that the flags at the Pentagon would be flown at half-mast.

I heard about it while I was driving today. I disagreed with his positions a lot, but I still was saddened by hearing it. He was a good man.

I dunno if I'd pass judgment on him as being a good man. He would've hated me, so I don't reserve any particular love for him.

But, I don't take pleasure in anyone's death, and won't speak badly of the recently deceased. So I won't be making any exceptions in this case. KF

Falwell was a Christian preacher who spoke his mind. I doubt you could find anybody who agreed with everything he said, and I also have no doubt that his more outrageous statements will be highlighted by the media now that he's gone, while his kinder statements will be ignored. It's unfortunate that the media prefers to dwell on the negative.

Sad for his death, I'm sure he was an okay person despite his fanaticism. But he did do one thing many people don't, and that was tell it like he thought. He never held back, never kept quiet. He spoke as he felt, and that's something that I can certainly respect though I never could agree with him.

i don't care.

and i'm not going to join in the eulogizing.

yes, the man spoke his mind. and misspoke and respoke and took lots of words back, tripped over others, etc etc. there's nothing particularly noble about speaking your mind. it doesn't take as much courage as people think it does. on the contrary, really all it takes is occasional brash stupidity. or maybe a few beers. i'm sure it helped immensely knowing there were armies of sheep hanging on his every word.

i'm sure he was a very kind man in private. but in public he spewed hatred and nonsense, and none of it has benefited society.

he propogated hatred?

Well, not hatred per se, but he certainly made off-color remarks that didn't help his opinion among non-Christians, and some Christians such as myself.

For example.

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

(A statement he later apologized for)

You know, you almost got to be a homosexual to be recognized in the entertainment industry anymore. Ellen [Degeneres], and all the rest. I love them, pray for their souls, but they're immoral. And the Hollywood scene — five and eight and 10 marriages — not something to be emulated.

I can understand how some would extract hateful sentiment from those statements, but it is my sincerest of opinion, even though I have no persnal love for Falwell, that it was not with a hateful heart he said those things.

There are people who say that anyone who is against abortion or homosexual acts is automatically "hateful". I would say that the selective quoting of Falwell, choosing the most outrageous things he ever said in his entire life and ignoring everything else he said, is more damaging and "divisive" than anything Falwell ever said. But that's just me speaking my mind.

A fair assessment of Falwell would be to consider what he did that had the most impact on other people. And, like it or not, that includes the "outrageous" comments he made. All things considered, Falwell wasn't a fool; he knew when he made certain outrageous comments that it would get him attention, which leads me to believe that such attention was part of his intention from the beginning.

I'm not going to judge what he said as hateful, malicious, or whatever. But to talk about him and not mention any of the negative comments he's made about other religions, or not mention the more outlandish claims he made that got him attention (like what DBD quoted), would be to ignore part of who he was. KF

Kizyr wrote:All things considered, Falwell wasn't a fool; he knew when he made certain outrageous comments that it would get him attention, which leads me to believe that such attention was part of his intention from the beginning.

Someone at another board I read mentioned that Falwell pretty much said so himself, that he had to say the high-profile, outrageous remarks to get the attention and fill the pews.

And to ignore every decent thing Falwell ever said also ignores part of who he was. Plenty of other public and political figures have said vicious things, and I don't see them constantly being bashed over the head with their most outrageous quotes.

While I'm speaking my mind I'll say that I probably agree with about 80% of everything I've ever heard from Falwell, and I'm not even a Protestant.

sure you do, JWL. paris hilton, lindsay lohan, george bush--and people still make fun of al gore for that invented-the-internet crack.

the thing is, these sorts of statements STAY. and apologizing for them is usually forgotten, if it's heard at all. any man or woman who has as public a forum as he did knows this. that's why politicians try to be so careful with their words. and that's why one misspeak can cripple a politician's career. moreover, he and his moral majority have had deeply negative impacts on many many people.

to the point that on the occasion that i felt it necessary to stick up for my religion--i'm a christian, and i went to art school, so there were quite a few occasions--my friends and acquaintances were shocked. not because i don't conduct myself kindly or dress decently, but because i never go around spouting off about how so-and-so's going to hell.

they all think jerry falwell and his endless BS are what being a christian is about.

ouch.

Just as a side note, Gore was misquoted and taken out of context for that. He used a different verb ("created", I think) and it was in reference to having played a major part in getting it funded -- which is what politicians do, take credit for making things happen. That pretty much underscores your point, of course; he didn't even need to say what was attributed to him for it to stick like glue and obscure far more important things.

I think, overall, he might've done more good if he'd...spoken wisely instead of making claims he had to have known weren't quite right. All of his outrageous comments could've been phrased more diplomatically without losing any of their punch.

Well, no matter. The reverend, for good or ill, must now answer to his Maker for what he's done, the good and the bad, and only said Maker has any right to judge him now.

The man caused more harm than good. His remarks were completely uncalled for to the point of being vulgar and hateful, at least in my opinion. The man lacked tact and was nothing special. Big frickin' deal. Thousands of people died on the same day and 90% of them were probably better people than Jerry Falwell. I say that because of these statements that he made:


On 9/11 - "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

"I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them."

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."

"Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions"

"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country."

"The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible,without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc."

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."

“Textbooks are Soviet propaganda.”

"I listen to feminists and all these radical gals...These women just need a man in the house. That"s all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they"re mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They"re sexist. They hate men; that"s their problem."


I just can't feel sorry for the death of someone who has said those things, I don't have it me, and if that make me a bad person, then I'm a bad person. I truly feel sorry for the poor fools who actually believe what he says, and for the people who have been negatively impacted by his words, whether they are Christian or not Christian, gay or straight. I'm utterly sick of people who lose focus on what it truly means to lead a good life and that you can do it even if you aren't Christian. The true message of the Bible has been absolutely lost in my honest opinion, and I blame people like Jerry Falwell.

The true message of the Bible has been absolutely lost in my honest opinion, and I blame people like Jerry Falwell.

That, I have a problem with. What about those who go and build houses, hospitals and schools for the poor? What about those who die for their faith, all because of said faith? What about those who help out in a soup kitchen? Most importantly, what about those who try and show the love of Christ and be a "light to the nations" as Isaiah 49:6 puts it? Barring all sorts of political mumbo jumbo and looking past the screendoor of modern-day "religion", this is, in essence, what a Christian is. The message is certainly still there as plain as day to anyone willing to really look for it. To say it's been lost just because you disagree with Falwell or some other big name televangelist is a slap in the face to those trying to live their lives in that fashion.

Disclaimer: I mean no offense to anyone that liked or disliked Falwell... like I said, I really never studied anything he said to any significant detail. I've spent far more time with C.S. Lewis, Karl Barth, Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the like than any of the current Christian big name authors or evangelists like Falwell and Robertson.