Re: Just got Tales of Symphonia 2. A rant.
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:53 pm
I enjoyed the skits more in ToS2, but otherwise I mostly prefer the first.
Not a *bad* game at all though.
Not a *bad* game at all though.
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It's definitely tons better than I thought it would be. This is why for now on, I will be PLAYING a game first before I spew any comments towards it, lol. If anyone catches me doing otherwise, I give them permission to throw tomatoes at me. XDMonde Luna wrote:Who are you and what have you done w/ Dark_Fairy? In all honesty though I am glad you like the game.
Most of my TS2 complaints have to do w/ the Symphonia cast as well. And although I am going to go out on a limb and agree that the overall storyline in TS2 is better, I personally still prefer the first. I guess sequels will never be better in my eyes.
Enjoy the ending, I hope you get the good one.
Perhaps not universally then. /snark.brightshield wrote:Hmm... I forgot about this topic. You actually liked ToS2 more than 1 Dark Fairy? I'm shocked. ToS is universally considered to be a vastly superior game(and is probably my favorite RPG ever). What surprised me the most is that you liked the cast more. Most of the new characters were pretty blah, and Emil was a total ***** if you'll excuse my colorful language. Kratos wasn't even in the second game, and he's pretty much the biggest badass in the entire Tales series...
Yup, you got me started on one of my rants now.brightshield wrote:Hmm... I forgot about this topic. You actually liked ToS2 more than 1 Dark Fairy? I'm shocked. ToS is universally considered to be a vastly superior game(and is probably my favorite RPG ever). What surprised me the most is that you liked the cast more. Most of the new characters were pretty blah, and Emil was a total ***** if you'll excuse my colorful language. Kratos wasn't even in the second game, and he's pretty much the biggest badass in the entire Tales series...
How did Emil NOT have good development? Would you have preferred him to stay wimpy? Plus, he became strong. I'll say it again...how is that NOT good development?I think Emil was DEFINITELY a better character than most of Symphonia cast.
lol, really? I can't think of a single likable trait he has.
Emil has tons of development.
Tons of development =/= good development.
Just because you like Symphonia doesn't "clearly" make it one of the better Tales games. I'll defend THAT to the end.ToS can't even compare to most of the other Tales games (coming from someone who has played AT LEAST a little bit of EVERY Tales game). I'm going to tear Symphonia down into parts.
Go for it. Symphonia is clearly one of the better Tales games, most of them aren't so great really. I'll defend that statement to the end.
2D graphics, not Destiny 2. The original Destiny had some pretty cute and nice looking 2D graphics (especially the remake). Plus, I call Eternia "Eternia" and Destiny 2 "Destiny 2".Graphics: I hated Symphonia's graphics. The 2D tales games that came out around Symphonia's time look better than the 3D wannabe chibi block characters they have for Symphonia. It wouldn't be fair to compare it to ToS2, Abyss, and Vesperia since they came out after ToS (since they obviously have superior graphics). I much perfer Destiny's 2D sprites over there attempt at 3D characters.
They were cell shaded and looked very nice. And if by Destiny 2, you mean Eternia, I laugh at the thought of those being superior. You may prefer them, but Symphonia's graphics were technically more proficient in every possible way.
Yes, Legendia was a major downgrade from Symphonia in terms of the battle system. That's about the only thing I agree with you on right now. Rebirth came out a year later than Symphonia and clearly had a better battle system, so that isn't much of a time difference at all. Yes, it's unfair to compare it to the later games, but I was mainly comparing it to Rebirth since it came out close to Symphonia. Yes, Destiny had a slow battle system, but the remake is slightly better.Game play: Symphonia's linear battles were ick. You couldn't really run from the enemies if they tried to attack you, sure you can guard, but I like the others games like Abyss where you can free run and such. Rebirth was linear as well, but at least it had 3 lines, which made it more fun.
Comparing it to games that came out after it is unfair. Symphonia's battle system is quicker and easier to use than any of the previous Tales games. Destiny was especially slow and clunky; hell Legendia came out afterwards and it was a major downgrade from Symphonia.
You can't tell me hearing "Ancient Ship" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg-dmYgBvhk&fmt=18) upon entering the dungeon isn't memorable. Plus, how many games have bright and cheery songs like "The Birds Chirp, I Sing" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bckgyhCo7Lw&fmt=18) with vocals while your walking around near the beginning of the game and later on? Most games only have vocal songs on special occasions and not while your actually playing the game.Music: All I have to say is listen to Legendia's soundtrack. Legendia totally wipes Symphonia clean in terms of music. I actually perfer most of the other Tales soundtracks over Symphonia too, but at least Symphonia had a few good soundtracks (mainly battle themes).
I like the character themes in Symphonia, not so much the battle themes. Legendia had good music, but it was unmemorable as hell. I can remember like 1 song from that game.
I never said Cliche = bad. I'm saying Symphonia extremely over does it with the cliche and thus makes it sort of dislikable. Lunar does cliche in a memorable, good way. By the way, I never said I DISLIKED symphonia completely. Its just one of my least favorite in the Tales Series.Story: Most of the Tales games have pretty cliche stories, but Symphonia's is about as cliche as you can get. I'm not going to spoil anything, but you know what I'm talking about. :\
Cliche =/= bad. All Tales games are equally cliche, the series doesn't have a single original concept in it. Symphonia works wonders with the cliches it's given though and everything is much deeper than it originally appears, while something like Tales of Destiny 2(Eternia) is literally just defined by it's cliches. Also, if you don't like cliches why in the heck are you into Lunar? Lunar and Tales are both very cliche series.
Definition taken from the Merriam-Webster dictionary:Yuri from Tales of Vesperia is the biggest badass in the Tales series.
He's the most badass main character in the Tales series. Jade from Abyss, Leon from Destiny, and Kratos from Symphonia pwn him in overall badassness though. Yuri is more of a smart ass really, he can be badass at times though. The characters that I mentioned are badass all the time.
I agree about the Luke thing, however, Emil didn't get on my nerves like Luke did. I found Emil likeable. I seriously think this is stupid. I like Emil, can you please get over it? I don't consider him a whimp.Plus, he became strong.
Did you not read my plot protection comment before? All main characters will be able to fight decently by the end of an RPG, no matter how wimpy they start out. That's just a general rule for games, and anime. Now factor out the plot protection, and Emil is just a wimpy little *****.
I'll say it again...how is that NOT good development?
180s are rarely pulled off effectively, and Emil is no exception. Other characters that fail miserably at this are Luke from Abyss, and Squall from FF8.
Luke's development is literally this.
1. I'm a jerk
2. Everyone hates me now...
3. I'm going to change.
4. I'm the nicest guy in the group now.
Just because a website lists something doesn't make it the absolute truth. People have opinions.I also find it funny that you would defend Emil so much. He's widely regarded as one of the worst RPG protagonists ever. Even one game company(I believe it was IGN), named him the 4th worst game hero ever...
Symphonia got good reviews because it’s one of the few RPGs released for the Gamecube. Yes, it was a good game in some aspects. However, it was boring to me. Plus, all people have different opinions. Just because a site reviews a game and calls it good doesn’t automatically make it good. That goes for any game. Everyone has different tastes, especially when it comes to the Tales Series. If you go to any Tales based discussion board, everyone has different opinions. Most people either like or hate Symphonia. I just happen to like the other Tales games better.My opinion of the game has nothing to do with me saying that it's one of the better games in the series. I'm basing that off of it's review scores. Symphonia got better scores than any other game in the series. I'm fairly good at seperating my favorites from what is considered best. For example, I like Legendia more than Phantasia, but Phantasia is without a doubt the better game.
Symphonia is also the most popular game in the series, but that hardly means anything. I mean look at something like the Twilight fad. That series is nothing but poorly written garbage. The two leads are suicidal emos, the love story is forced and ridiculous, the climax of the series consists of two groups staring at each other and then walking away, Jacob falls in love with a 1 year old, and the writing is flat out terrible. There are some really ridiculous parts as well. Such as Bella being fine with Edward breaking into her house and spying on her when she sleeps. That's flat out definition abuse, but teenage girls overlook this because "Edward is teh cooooolest!", and all teens want to be watched over by Edward... it kind of makes me lose faith in humanity. Not to mention that Edward isn't even a good character to begin with. He isn't deep, interesting, cool, realistic, or likable in any sense of the word.
Anyway, sorry for the rant, I just hate that series more than any other. The critics see the flaws of the series, but the blind fangirls cannot. So that's why I place more faith in pro reviews for games, movies, and anime.
3D graphics doesn’t equal better graphics.If you're honestly saying that Destiny had technically more proficient graphics than Symphonia, then we'd best stop this debate here.
I’m stating how it makes the game more unique. It adds a nice touch to the game, something that instrumental can’t do sometimes.Most games only have vocal songs on special occasions and not while your actually playing the game.
Considering that I VASTLY prefer instrumental songs, this doesn't really mean much to me.
Yes, the other Tales games are cliché. I want to know how you think it’s better than Abyss and Vesperia.I'm saying Symphonia extremely over does it with the cliche and thus makes it sort of dislikable.
Which is dead wrong. Explain how Symphonia is more cliche than something like Abyss, or Vesperia, or most of the series for that matter. Enlighten me.
There is no bias. I’ve made my point about Symphonia. Let’s leave it at that.Lunar does cliche in a memorable, good way.
I smell extreme bias...
It only got notably better scores in North America, and really only because it was a halfway decent RPG for an RPG-starved console. I'm not saying that you're not allowed to like the game and have it as a favorite, but to say that it's definitively better based on review scores is fairly ludicrous. If you converse with the Tales community outside of a Symphonia-centric board, you'll find that most find the game to be fairly bland in comparison to the rest of the series, particularly in the character department. There are of course exceptions. I know Cyllya, who's been a major member of the Tales community, has always preferred the games in the Aselia universe, but then I like Legendia the most even though I can see and acknowledge the game's many shortcomings. Also, I don't see how Phantasia is "without a doubt the better game" when it's so riddled with plotholes that it's incomprehensible. They have you change the past by shooting Dhaos off into the future rather than the present, but when you return to the present, your village is still destroyed? How does that work, especially considering that reviving the mana tree in the past did clearly affect the present? It's just a mess that's never been properly sorted out, even in the PSP version.brightshield wrote:My opinion of the game has nothing to do with me saying that it's one of the better games in the series. I'm basing that off of it's review scores. Symphonia got better scores than any other game in the series. I'm fairly good at seperating my favorites from what is considered best. For example, I like Legendia more than Phantasia, but Phantasia is without a doubt the better game.
Again, only in North America, and only because there are so few people who've been exposed to the rest of the series outside of what's on the Nintendo consoles. I'm hoping Tales of Graces will at least partially rectify that, assuming it's released here.brightshield wrote:Symphonia is also the most popular game in the series ...
I don't see how it's really even appropriate to compare Symphonia's battle system to the previous games when it's the first 3-D system. Plus, if you're going to do that, I could just as easily argue that Destiny 2's is actually better because it represents the perfection of the basic single-line system whereas Symphonia is the absolute roughest form of multi-line.brightshield wrote:3. My point still stands. Symphonia had a better battle system than any of the previousgames.
I can agree with a preference for instrumental songs over vocal ones, but how does Symphonia even adequately represent something instrumental when its synthesized instruments are so heinously bad? I'm not sure how Sakuraba managed to take a step down from Destiny 2, but he definitely did. His only well-balanced songs for Symphonia chime in during the FMVs. Everything else is so overwhelmingly blaring and poorly synthesized that it really detracts from the pieces. Just listen to Beat the Angel. There's a harpsichord part that would've been nice if Sakuraba hadn't tossed some overpowering synth on top of it that's repetitive and contributes nothing aside from dampening the interesting part. Ultimately, I've never understood why people enjoy Symphonia's soundtrack. I even like a lot of what Sakuraba does (Valkyrie Profile, Eternal Sonata, Baten Kaitos), but Tales tends to be a dumping ground for him as far as I've seen.brightshield wrote:Considering that I VASTLY prefer instrumental songs, this doesn't really mean much to me.
Again, only in North America. The same can't be said of Vesperia and Destiny. Neither game is on a console devoid of worthwhile RPGs. I know you mentioned you felt the XBox360 was RPG-starved, but it's really not considering it has Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Infinite Undiscovery, Star Ocean 4, Enchanted Arms, The Last Remnant, Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fable 2, and always the looming prospect of FF13. The GameCube had, what, Baten Kaitos and its sequel, Fire Emblem, Crystal Chronicles, and Paper Mario plus a handful of Dreamcast ports? And Symphonia made it out way ahead of most of those titles to boot.brightshield wrote:I don't buy this excuse. The same can be said of Destiny and Vesperia, but Symphonia still out scored and out sold both of them.
I do think people point out the flaws a lot (and certainly more than they ought to), but there are so many people who claim that the game's flawless that it's hard to resist being overly critical to compensate.brightshield wrote:That's because like Dark Fairy said, Symphonia is the FF7 of this series. It's by far the most popular game in the series, thus many people exaggerate the games flaws while ignoring the EXACT same flaws in the other games. It's sad really.
1. Tales of Symphoniabrightshield wrote:Mind telling me which of the games are in the Aselia universe? I'm curious as to which type of fan I lean more towards.
I won't deny that it has more interesting plot potential, but I don't think it's utilized well. The characters have practically no personality at all unless you watch the skits they tacked on in the PSX version, and the whole thing is pulled off poorly. Even though people tend to hate it, I prefer the OVA portrayal since it at least makes more sense and Dhaos' antiheroism doesn't seem like a complete afterthought.brightshield wrote:Phantasia does have plot holes, but it's still a better plot than Legendia. Legendia doesn't even have a plot in the second half. It's just a bunch of character quests really. That really hurt the story for me. As a result, we got a great cast, but a very mediocre story. Plus, Phantasia gets credit for being the most innovative game in the series(inventing the battle system, summon spirits, and well lots of things).
It is because it got lucky, though. First of all, Nintendo funded extra advertising for the North American release of Symphonia, so the word got out to more people. There was next to no advertising for Legendia, Abyss, Phantasia, Radiant Mythology, and Vesperia. Second, you can't possibly believe that the sales are an accurate reflection of reception when something like Dawn of the New World, which I know wasn't satisfactory to a lot of fans, still sold more than every other North American Tales release aside from the original Symphonia. The fact is that several factors contributed to the game's success here, including timing, the console chosen, Nintendo's aid, etc.brightshield wrote:]Again with the excuses. FF7 and Symphonia were well received because they are some of the best that their respective series have to offer, not because they got lucky or anything of the sort.
No one calls Eternia Destiny 2 any longer. To avoid confusion, most fans use Destiny II if the localized name must be used since our version used the Roman numeral and the true Destiny 2 used the Arabic numeral. Regardless, though, calling the game Destiny II is all but obsolete nowadays. Even Namco Bandai of America themselves have started listing it as Eternia on buttons at talesrpg.com and other affiliated sites.brightshield wrote:If you're referring to Eternia I disagree 100%.
And that's an opinion. I didn't personally think any of them were better than Vesperia, but Lost Odyssey sold a ton of copies worldwide for a JRPG (excluding the standardly less than stellar Japanese performance due to general XBox360 disdain over there). Blue Dragon was also quite popular. I liked Eternal Sonata, but most people didn't so much, and for all we know, that reflected poorly on Vesperia as well due to the stylistic similarities and the Namco Bandai name that was attached to both.brightshield wrote:Neither game is on a console devoid of worthwhile RPGs.
I disagree completely with the bold part.
Fair enough on those that came after, though you're completely wrong about Enchanted Arms (came out in 2006), plus I think Infinite Undiscovery was near enough in release date to directly compete with Vesperia. As for WRPGs, it's hardly fair to ignore them, particularly when the majority of the 360's audience is in the west, where WRPGs are often preferred. They're all in competition. You can't just ignore them because you don't like them as much.brightshield wrote:I know you mentioned you felt the XBox360 was RPG-starved, but it's really not considering it has Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon,
These were the only JRPGs to come out before Vesperia on the 360.
Infinite Undiscovery, Star Ocean 4, Enchanted Arms, The Last Remnant,
These all came out after Vesperia IIRC, so they don't count.
Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fable 2,
These aren't JRPGs which is what I referring to.
Then ... please look at the sales I posted? Destiny did do well in a region where it had little competition. It sold 1.139 million plus an additional 395,000 for the remake. If you want to look at the west, it came out after Final Fantasy VII, so I can't imagine how you're coming up with the idea that it had no competition. Destiny was released on 9/30/98 while FF7 came here on 9/3/97, over a year earlier.brightshield wrote:It was even worse on the Playstation. Destiny only had to contend with Wild ARMS, and Suikoden. There were other JRPGs out, but they were practically unheard of.
But review scores vary quite a bit as well, both over time and between consoles. Something that would be laughed at on any other console could potentially get a great review on something like the DS. Just look at Nintendogs. So, you have to ask whether the decision to give Symphonia a higher score was based on the game with regard to the rest of the series or the game as it was perceived in that time and context. If you can think about it critically, it's obvious that the review scores aren't meant to rank the games in the series. They're meant to tell you how worthwhile a title is for a particular console, which can vary widely. Symphonia's cel shading, for instance, was probably more "accepted" on a Nintendo console than was Vesperia's on the 360. That instantly knocks Vesperia's graphic scores down a peg even though they're infinitely better than Symphonia's. Does that mean it's a worse game? No, but that means it's already behind in part of the scoring. Is Vesperia's sound worse than Symphonia's? Probably not, and the synth is definitely better. Still, Vesperia's going to get a lower score in that department because everyone expects live recorded orchestral music nowadays. That'll push Vesperia even lower. You just can't compare the review scores because there are far too many console- and time-specific factors involved. Maybe it'd be a more valid comparison if you went back and pulled out the battle, story, and characterization scores to compare, but that'd be something entirely different.brightshield wrote:I agree with you. One of my points was that review scores indicate the quality of a game. My point with Twilight was that sales don't really mean much, as that series is known to be garbage.
I just feel that Famitsu does a better job of assessing the games based on series standards since they often mention how it relates to other series games in their reviews. The western reviewers don't tend to do that aside from sometimes opening with the fact that it's from the Tales series. They mostly judge them independently, which means they're subject to shifting tastes, changing expectations, and console-specific criteria.brightshield wrote:As for scores, Famitsu listed Abyss, Innocence, and Vesperia as all besting Symphonia, and Eternia, Destiny 2, and Hearts were all just one point behind it.
Famitsu is just one company. The total average is what matters.
I think the complaint with Symphonia is that the characters are cliches that don't really interact enough. I mean, every Tales character is more or less a walking cliche, but it's how they relate to one another that's interesting. Symphonia's interaction is about as bland as it gets, Phantasia and some of the escort titles aside. The Sylvarant troupe was okay if a bit standard, but some of the Tethe'allans were just throwaways. I mean, does Regal really ever do much aside from interact slightly with Presea regarding Alicia and do some basic things at Lezareno to help you that could've probably been easily done without him by just, y'know, talking to a non-playable president? He's a completely tacked on character and could've been removed without much consequence, and he doesn't even join in much of the fun during the skits. He might as well be an optional character like Chat or Max. Presea also doesn't do much either aside from her plot arc designed to give the extraneous Regal some minor plot relevance. Generally, there's not enough time spent on letting you get to know the characters, and it doesn't help matters that they even made two of them into zombies for a quarter or so of their playtime.brightshield wrote:People get ridiculous with it though. The FF6 fanbase is particularly bad with this type of thing. Like the people who claim that Sephiroth isn't extremely deep. Okay, that's a fair assessment, as he's not as deep as someone like Krelian from Xenogears. However, he's far deeper than Kefka. They say it's okay for Kefka not to have any depth... but it's a major flaw for Sephiroth to not have a lot of depth(even though he's far deeper than Kefka).
I was seeing major bias coming from Dark Fairy as well. Symphonia isn't so great because it uses lots of cliches, yet every other game in the series uses JUST AS MANY cliches. It's somehow a major flaw for Symphonia, but not even a minor flaw for some of the other games or Lunar for that matter.
I should point out that there's only Aselia and Destiny, and Destiny only includes Destiny and Destiny 2, not Destiny II (Eternia). Everything else is independent.brightshield wrote:I'd either go with the Destiny or Aselia games then. Symphonia is my favorite game in the series, but Symphonia 2 was just a shameless cash-in(much like the FF7 spin-offs). Destiny is my second favorite game in the series, but I never got to play the Destiny 2. Phantasia was also pretty good. It really depends on how much I would like Destiny 2.
Er, I thought it had lots of good NPCs. Harriet was really well developed, and then you had the Oresoren, Stella, the Alcotts, Fenimore and Thyra, Walter, Musette, Curtis and Isabella (even if you didn't like them), Mimi Baker, Maurits, Csaba, Giet, Solon, and a wealth of other people who played a major role in the story. It's true that Vaclav and crew were pretty boring as far as villains go, but they're also just the setup for the real conflict.brightshield wrote:Sadly, the main characters were all that shined in Legendia. Side characters were some of the most annoying in the series(especially Curtis), and the villains were horrible.
There were very few basic magazine ads as well as some (poorly crafted) ad banners on gaming websites. That's been the extent of the advertising for every game since Symphonia. Symphonia (and Dawn, for that matter), got major articles in Nintendo Power and a better budget for online and print advertising. There've been no commercials for any of the games, so I don't know where you're getting that from. Or, well, wait. I take that back. There was supposedly one that ran for Vesperia that I never saw, and at the official Tales forums, we only had about three total sightings of it, all very late at night during some anime television programming. Of course, Vesperia was slighted in several other ways as it never even received an official website, and the talesrpg.com link displayed in the ads (which was a series portal rather than an actual site) didn't even go live until months after the release.brightshield wrote:I guess I imagined all those magazine ads then.
I think some of them even got commercials, but I could be wrong about that.
I'm not denying that it has a hardcore fanbase. I agree with that. I just don't think you can sit there and say that it's obviously the best in the series because of sales and an average of review scores sampled from different times on different consoles. They're not meant to compare the series entries.brightshield wrote:Dawn of the New World's high sales is a testament to Symphonia's popularity. Most fans hated DotNW, and bought it merely because it was a direct sequel to Symphonia. It's the same thing for the FF7 compilation really. Dirge of Cerberus got low reviews, but still sold well because it was a direct sequel to FF7. All this proves is that the original games have extremely hardcore fanbases.
Vesperia's average North American scores are only very slightly lower, though I don't deny that reviews have an affect. I still don't see what that has to do with pushing the actual quality of the game over that of others in the series. I've already addressed how the review scores themselves can be skewed, so I don't really see it a consequential.brightshield wrote:The fact that it got great scores also influenced people to buy it. This is also a major factor which you cannot ignore.
The "only" competition? All three of those were massive competition. o_O I never even said the original Destiny was all that great, just that it got buried in a bunch of other high-quality RPGs, many of which were high profile Square releases that rode on the success of Final Fantasy 7.brightshield wrote:Really? I was under the impression that Destiny came early out early 97. Still, most people had already played FF7 over a year later. So the only real competition Destiny had was Xenogears(which was a much better RPG), Final Fantasy Tactics(which really shouldn't even count since it's a strategy RPG), and Star Ocean 2.
I can't say I agree. I think they're at least equal depending upon your VA preferences, but I thought Vesperia was the first localized game in the series to perfectly capture each character with the casting, plus I've always preferred Peter Garza's voice direction to Nao Higo's, which often seems wooden.brightshield wrote:The music is of higher sound quality at the very least. The voice acting was vastly superior in Symphonia though.
Only recently has it become a major problem, though I guess it's consequently not fair to use their assessments of Vesperia, Hearts, and Innocence in that case. I still think the older review scores have stood up well.brightshield wrote:Famitsu is a complete joke though. They actually believe that FF12 is the best FF, and that Dragon Quest 9 is the best Dragon Quest...
I feel like you said it yourself when you started listing the Symphonia characters separately as their own little cliches a bit earlier in the topic. They tend to stand on their own throughout the entire game instead of interacting with one another for an interesting mix. Of course, that's totally my opinion. If the cast resonated with you, they just did. That's all there is to it. However, if we could go back to the original intent of my posts, your opinion plus some review scores that are skewed because of the time of the release don't prove definitively that it's the best game in the series.brightshield wrote:lol, I find this funny. Sure Symphonia might not have the greatest character interaction of all time, but it's easily on par with the other games in the series. Symphonia, Abyss, and Vesperia are at the same level in this regard. Destiny, Eternia, and Phantasia are all weaker than the three I mentioned before. Legendia had the best character interaction in the series no doubt. It's just unfortunate that this came at the cost of the plot.
It's pretty slight when you consider how many review sites are scoring on 10- and 5-point scales. Not many are going to put up a score out of 100 with a 4-point difference.brightshield wrote:Vesperia's average North American scores are only very slightly lower
Symphonia = 86/100
Vesperia = 82/100
I wouldn't call that "very slightly lower".
How profound.Lunar Eclipse wrote:And that's an opinion.