In defense of Lunar: Legend...

[Greco12]

Am I the only one who thinks that despite the game's flaws, it at least feels like the developers had their hearts in the right place?

I feel like some of the changes added to Lunar: Legend are actually quite welcome. Granted, it doesn't fix all of the story problems (there are still lingering plot holes), but it at least felt like they had some good ideas.

I do like that they added in Taben as a boss, since in all other versions of the game he just sort of disappears from the story. And appropriately, he's piloting a large mechanical device.

I'm still not sure how to feel about Nash being the one to comfort Mia after Ghaleon defeats the party, since for me the point of the girls holding out hope while the boys were having their pity party was kind of the point (in the case of MiaxNash, Mia remained strong-hearted while the once-arrogant Nash was displaying cowardice or perhaps weakness). On the other hand, I like how LL handles the KylexJessica part of that scene by allowing the two to share a tender moment together outside the bar. I think it has a better impact than just her berating him for being all-talk-and-no-show.

All-in-all, I feel like LL's attempts at building on or adding to TSS were more admirable than SSH's, which came across as fan-pandering (that terrible prologue with the Four Heroes or Jessica's cooking scene which ended up being a red herring).

[HiroOne]

Your post inspires me to pick up a copy and play. I've played of course the WD originals as well as Silver Star Harmony but I passed on this version because it was yet ANOTHER re-make of Silver Star where I've been dying to see more of Eternal Blue and beyond.

[Alunissage]

I've always liked Lunar Legend well enough for itself, despite some localization hiccups. As I commented in another thread, it has absolutely adorable sprites, especially in battle, and it also has some interesting versions of things such as Nash also looking to be a Dragonmaster (as in the Lunatic Festa CD), the Sub-Vane boss rather than the Trial Cave, and a few other things. We also actually got to see the Festival in Burg rather than just hearing about it. And there were a few fun little secrets (hidden chests, the Protector's Cave, the special sets of equipment, and that one chest in Ramus's shop) that were a bit different from the others. And seeing Alex's mother as more than a sprite. Etc. I think at the time it came out people were kinda fixed on the negatives -- the first non-WD localization (and one needing another edit), range not being part of the battles, the much weaker GBA sound quality, and a few bugs -- and overlooked the positives.

Of course, I never felt that SSH (which didn't have any of those issues aside from a slightly different direction with the localization) was "pandering" with the Four Heroes prologue and the like, and I tend to feel that that that viewpoint is overly purist. I might feel differently after playing the whole thing in English, but my general feeling is that all things that show a bit of backstory not previously known are of interest. (And besides, we're seeing that prologue as a bedtime story told to Alex and Luna, so it could be a bit mythic -- but it DOES at least partially fit in with the backstory in Damon's library in TSS, and shows character interaction between the Heroes that we never see otherwise, so I don't see why it's "terrible".)

Okay, later tonight I'll make the thread I've been meaning to post for a while on Lunar 1 versions. Stay tuned.

[Leoriosan]

I have some fondness for it since it was my introduction to Lunar, although I admit it's flawed in terms of both localization and difficulty.

I thought it was cool that they made Taben a boss, complete with his own mechanical device. It makes me wish they had added him in as a boss in SSH.

I also liked the Protector Cave, particularly the parts when the voice would speak to each character and ask them about their goals and aspirations. The voice compliments Alex, Jessica, and Mia for their answers (which amount to using their powers to help their loved ones and others) and more or less tells Kyle and Nash, "Eh, that'll do."

[Alunissage]

Yeah, it's way too easy, what with the arts gauges (especially Mia's MistVeil, which is three times as powerful as White Dragon Protect!). Though I have to say it was fun filling up Mia's gauge by having her attack with her special staff that dropped fish and books and such on enemies.

It really is a shame that the localization was so rushed. In addition to the text needing another round of editing, one save slot was subtracted and the item duplication/deletion glitch was added -- which could make the game unfinishable if you accidentally overwrote a piece of dragon equipment. I also don't remember the import having the graphical glitches I found in the NA game. But it's still just a really cute game.

[Kizyr]

Yeah, it's way too easy, what with the arts gauges (especially Mia's MistVeil, which is three times as powerful as White Dragon Protect!). Though I have to say it was fun filling up Mia's gauge by having her attack with her special staff that dropped fish and books and such on enemies.

Once I got that staff, it was all I ever used.

It really is a shame that the localization was so rushed. In addition to the text needing another round of editing, one save slot was subtracted and the item duplication/deletion glitch was added -- which could make the game unfinishable if you accidentally overwrote a piece of dragon equipment. I also don't remember the import having the graphical glitches I found in the NA game. But it's still just a really cute game.

What were the graphical glitches? I don't remember any of them cropping up in the Japanese game. (Also, I've never actually played all of the NA release of Lunar: Legend. It's the one version of the Lunar series I haven't played, in fact.) KF

[Alunissage]

Let's see, I remember the lower half of each sprite disappearing and a sudden palette swap of the entire screen. I didn't see either in the Japanese game (which I played all of, I think). There may have been others, but those are the two I recall. The first one happened within a couple hours of my starting the game.

There's one script error which I'm pretty sure is in both versions of the game. After Damon's Spire, if you reenter -- or possibly just if you talk to the thieves on the first floor after talking to Damon -- there's dialogue about the guildmaster's granddaughter being kidnapped. But this hasn't happened yet. And the thing is, you can't get back into the spire after it does happen, so there is no point in the game in which that text would be read properly.

This is making me realize that a J->E differences section for this game is sadly lacking. It probably would have a lot fewer text differences since the translation was likely pretty literal (to the point of having someone follow a line with "Foo, foo, foo" rather than "Ha, ha, ha"), but there were enough localization quirks to make it worth listing.

[Maus]

I honestly though that the game was perfectly fine for what it was and I didn't allow any of those flaws to throw me off of it (at least, not completely).

I would also like to point out that they did a whole lot with what little could be offer on a GBA cartridge; this and Klonoa: Empire of Dreams remain two of my all-time favorite ports because of how much they add and how many improvements could be seen on a less powerful machine.

I even think that the in-game cutscenes were a fitting replacement for the animated ones.

[Alunissage]

To be honest, I have a bit of an anti-voice bias, and I'm not much of one for anime, so I was perfectly happy with the sprite scenes. And I liked collecting cards, even if there was an annoying randomness to some of it. I really need to replay this game... along with, like, EVERY Lunar game. Sigh.

[Raining51]

Yes I really agree! I definitely think that Lunar Legend is perhaps most faithful to the original spirit in many ways and I ended up enjoying this one the most.

By comparison I thought Lunar Silver Star Harmony had it's points anyway it's not like this entry should be thrown in the trash at any rate.

[Alunissage]

I've replayed the beginning of LL relatively recently, up to Meribia or so, and I think it actually shows more character depth than any of the other versions of Lunar 1, at least in that part. Some examples:

- Both Nash and Alex take the White Dragon Trial, which is some questions posed to them individually (similar to the questions Ghaleon asks Alex on the boat trip back to Saith in SSSC), so Alex is thinking right away about the implications of the role of Dragonmaster.

- Nash and Nall gripe at each other and Ramus points out that they're all tired and getting short-tempered. This is more perceptive than Ramus is usually shown as being.

- Nash gets kidnapped by pirates and is incredulous that Alex and friends charge in to rescue him without an escape plan, and Alex says "We only thought of saving you." Yes, Alex says this, not Nall as a mouthpiece for him. Nash also outright thanks them, realizing internally that his classism has been blinding him to the possibility of friendship with people of different background.

- Alex speaks a lot more for himself in general, including talking to Mel about the theft of the diamond. He and Nall also have a conversation on the boat about what the future holds, in place of the boat song.

- Nall is sad that Ramus is leaving the party after getting the store, and is surprised that Alex takes it so well. Luna explains that Ramus has a dream too, that now he can finally fulfill. (Ramus also independently leaves Burg ahead of the group to go try to sell the diamond; Quark gave it to Alex saying specifically to give it to the boy with glasses, so it's definitely Ramus's.)

- I haven't gotten to this part in my replay yet, but the replacement of the Cave of Trial with Sub-Vane shows Nash doing some interesting deduction about Luna right away, noting that she doesn't overtly have magic power, but is the one most strongly affected by the magical disturbance in Sub-Vane.

All of it makes me sad that it was hamstrung by the need of editing (the story scenes mentioned above are generally better done than miscellaneous NPC dialogue) and the bugs (I honestly can't tell if Saith is truly empty or if the NPC sprites just aren't loading, but I suspect the latter). Granted, this first part of the game is the part that differs the most from the other versions of Lunar 1 so there was the most scope for new writing, and the rest of the game may not have much in the way of differences and revert to Nall talking for Alex most of the time. Looking forward to finding out.

[Kizyr]

Honestly reading this thread and the latest comments get me to re-think Lunar: Legend in the grand scheme of the series.

Silver Star Harmony on its own may have been more fleshed out and a more "complete" game, but looking back... You basically have SSS, with the difficulty scaled so far back it's trivially easy, and with a couple of added scenes that are incredibly out-of-place and add almost nothing. You might as well play SSS and get a much fuller experience.

Lunar: Legend may seem almost basic/simplistic by comparison, but it has plenty of differences with the rest of the series, both in gameplay style and story, that it adds something different not seen in any other Lunar game. Sure you might not get a lot out of it on its own, but... if someone had played the main two games (remakes or originals) and was thinking of playing either SSH or LL, I'd actually recommend they play LL first.

[frozenyoge]

I swore against this version back in the day solely because the boat song was truncated into non-existence -- not that I would've been able to tell them how to cram it in there -- but I'm starting to come around to this as a casual way to dip into the world! If I fire it up one of these days, I may just return to aid in the Defense.

[Alunissage]

I'd love to hear your comments. It really is an underappreciated game.

I really feel for the localizers, though. Not only did they clearly not have enough time (I think only a few months elapsed between the JP and NA games), but they had the same character limit as in the Japanese script -- and 18-20 characters a line is plenty in Japanese but horribly inadequate for English. (For comparison, SSSC has around 35 English characters per line, and SSH has more.)

[Kizyr]

By the way, do we know for sure that they had to do things like change references to alcohol into references to like, apple cider and chocolate, at Nintendo's behest? Or is that apocryphal? I realize I never really did dig into that question back in the day.

[Alunissage]

I'm pretty sure they had to, but don't recall if there was an official statement to that effect. But even if NoA was loosening up regarding their console games, the GBA was likely still seen as being primarily for kids. Ubisoft may also have been concerned about the rating; the game came out in NA on December 13 and they were probably hoping parents would buy it for their kids. It was incredibly rushed to make that release date, and I can't think of any other reason besides wanting it out before Christmas.

[ShugoHanasaki]

I thought some of the story changes were neat. Same in SSSC. I wish we could get a TRUE COMPLETE version that has all the games intertwined with their quests through each game like the axe/wood/bridge event at the beginning of TSS for example

[Ghaleon777]

Yeah, and no one seemed to care about the removal of the "move around the battlefield" system for the battles. I always see reviews of this game and no one complains about it. Makes me think that it was not a really useful feature in the original games and more of a "look" thing, idk.

[Alunissage]

Huh, I had no idea that people didn't complain about the lack of range, which was one of the really interesting things about Lunar's gameplay. But I really do think it's OK for the GBA, given that they opted to make the sprites big and detailed so there wouldn't be much room. And they did keep zone attacks, slightly altering some of the spells to work with the battle constraints (Nash's ThorBolt attacks one enemy rank rather than one single enemy as SSSC's Thunderbolt does).

I recently went through the Japanese strategy guide and updated my lists of weapons and accessories, and there are so many in this game. There are 44 equippable accessories, and this includes the Dragon Ring, which is equippable in LL by Alex for DEF+1 and RES+20. For comparison, there are 20 accessories in SSS (including the Dragon Wings), plus the ten bromides that are equippable by Alex, Nash, or Kyle for all of +1 DEF. Some of the LL-only accessories and items are specific to that game's mechanics (enemy card drop rate, changing Arts gauge attack, decreasing encounter rate), but the others do things like gradually upping stats in battle or adding effects to attacks. Likewise, there are far more weapons and pieces of armor than in any of the other games.

[Omegazero108]

Honestly, a point towards the end of Lunar Legend I felt was better than expected (That I see is thought of as weird here...) is the Nash and Mia role reversal. I thought it was an interesting twist because of the way their charas were thinking of Silver Star Story.

Like, to my understanding, Nash in the remakes is meant to be something of a coward correct? Yet Mia herself in the remakes seems to genuinely have low self-confidence/self-worth in turn. Yet one thing that stayed constant is Nash's simpery for Mia. So I took it as like, Ghaleon's brutal stomping of the party broke Mia's confidence while Nash didn't wanna disappoint her a second time, so he was fighting himself about turning and running. When he faces Mia, he admits to his own faults and digs deep for his own courage to take the fight to Ghaleon despite the loss he handed them.

I get this may not 100% line up with Lunar Legend, but was going off my somewhat hazy memory of the game and how these two had their characters handled in the remakes.